Hub Controller options

mike_2009

Got an email from hubcontrols sales - moving to subscription from next year. Can either pay or return but they don't elaborate on options. Assume app dead from January so can't set/change the schedule, just manually turn on and off. The LCD controller doesn't let you edit the schedule. If I return it who pays for that and what then? No mention of costs / refunds etc. The trial was taxpayer funded but I'm selling the house so just looking for options. Replace with a old style analog timeclock I guess? If I can find the original.

Bit disappointed but what can you do? Any advice on options appreciated. Would like to leave working boiler controls for new owner! Thanks.

AndrewJRenko

I just saw the same email, seems a bit mad that they could brick the unit at this stage. I'm going to flag it up to SEAI and see what they can do.

deezell

There were plenty of posts on Boards warning that this thing was junk. Right now you can buy a replacement Tado black edition from Screwfix Black Friday for €119, or a Hive mini for €99, proper wireless smart stats, app control, alexa, Google, homekit etc. Wire receiver in place of the Hub Con.

Banjo Carney

Will the hive mini only work with a Combi boiler or will it work with an ordinary oil boiler

deezell

A combi boiler only requires a single channel relay. An CH system with an ordinary boiler will generally need a two channel controller, one for CH and one for HW. With only a single channel you can only heat HW at the same time as CH with an ordinary boiler. The Hub thing has only one relay when I looked at their installation instructions, (though their site seems to be down now,) so its just a wired thermostat. The Hive mini has two types, single channel for a combi boiler (HW is sourced direct from the boiler), or twin channel for HW and CH, to control their individual zones valves. They're the same price. https://www.screwfix.ie/p/hive-mini-wireless-heating-hot-water-smart-thermostat/901pv

You can buy the latter, and just use the CH relay in the receiver to replace the function of the HubCont. The only info I've found regarding the Hub con. and hot water was the suggestion to disable its thermostat and just use the entire device as a HW timer? I assume this meant you needed two of them?

Banjo Carney

Thanks that's great information much appreciated. My system has no zones it heats rads and water once it's on so would the one you linked do me. What's the difference between hive and hive mini.

Wiring wise I think the hub controller has only two wires so how would that work wiring the hive receiver. Thanks again.

mike_2009

There's a special tool for removing the hub controller, don't know if I still have mine. Bought a Tado so will rip out Hub to fit it. Thanks all!

deezell

Either would do, but for simplicity get the one with just one relay and zone for CH, as you can't use the HW relay to have independent CH and HW heating. The hive mini has a simpler touch screen wall stat than the standard Hive. Hive is a wireless stat. It can be located anywhere, an it connects wirelessly to the receiver. The receiver can be mounted in place of your current Hub C. It's mains powered, and has a set of contacts to send the live control signal to fire the boiler. Alternatively, the Hive receiver can be connected directly to the boiler in the boiler location, and hub controller can then be removed. The combi boiler Hive mini is the one you want, if you look at the images it has only a single indicator lamp for CH, the other one has two lamps.

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/hive-mini-wireless-heating-smart-thermostat/150pv

Tbh, if you just want to leave a means for the new owner to switch on his heating, you could just fit a basic mechanical thermostat, wire in place of the Hub C. Alternatively a simple programmable wired stat like this Honeywell T3 will give timing and temperature control, and is a straight swap for the Hub Con. No wireless or Internet.

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/honeywell-home-t3-1-channel-wired-programmable-thermostat/901kt

it's up to you. The smart Hive is only a 40 euro more expensive, but does give you a selling point for the house, though unlikely to cause a bidding war!

mike_2009

Went with the Tado in the end - all fitted and paired. Very happy with the app and can return the hub controller to sender with a smile! Might try the Hive in my next house!! Thanks all!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119924436#Comment_119924436

Who fitted it? Is tis a boiler engineer or an electrician or ???

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119928831#Comment_119928831

Tado wired replacement of a Hub controller is DIY, two wire swap. Ten minutes work for any competent trade person, electrician, kitchen goods fitter, Broadband installer, literally anyone who can throw a circuit breaker and check that the power is off, then unmount the hub, identify the two wires used, live in and switched Live to the boiler out. Neutral wire not needed if mounting a wired Tado stat in place of the Hub, as the Tado runs on batteries. If you're replacing the Hub Con with a wireless stat, Hive, Drayton or Tado, the receiver unit will replace the Hub Con, you might reuse the screw holes even, and you'll need the neutral wire in these cases as these receivers are mains operated, no battery. Their assiciated wireless stats can be located anywhere, or sat on a stand and moved around to where you are. Nest eco wireless stat uses a battery powered receiver, so it's a two wire replacement. If you don't want the receiver mounted on the wall where the Hub Con used to be, it can be located next to where the Switched live runs into zone valves or directly to the boiler switched live in. This might be more challenging to identify for a DIY installer. The Hub Con original installers would in most cases have just lifted your old stat and dropped the Hub in place of it.

HarryHeart

If the European Union paid for the controller and to install them. Do we own them? If I kept the wall hub controller and didn't use the app. Could we just keep it.?

deezell

I assume it will keep working as a manual stat on the wall. If you don't pay this sub, I assume they'll deregister you from their app. Way back I posted details of how utility companies were being substantially rewarded by the EU with energy credits for rolling out energy saving devices. It was no longer a case of choice for the consumer, and a grant towards the cost of the device. They were more than compensated for the physical cost of the device, presumably churned out in China for a few dollars. I see Tuya smart WiFi app stats for €5 with delivery, so I don't expect they paid a huge amount to have hub c made. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004328837177.html

They've already claimed on your behalf, now they want a sub? If there is no intelligence in the cloud governing the operation of the stat (they claim it works unconnected), then the App to Internet to Stat is a passive remote data connection, nothing to do with them and paid for by your broadband fee, rather like remote doorbells or light switches. Whether they keep a gateway running somewhere to route app to stat traffic is possible, in order to enforce subscription. Did I read that there's a special tool just to open it and unscrew it off the wall? Ffs, it sounds more like a gas meter or an ATM they've installed, rather than a wall thermostat, albeit one with 'intuition' (Their claim). It measures temperature, and turns on/off the boiler, nothing else.

Banjo Carney

There's nothing special about the gizmo to take the front off it's just a piece of plastic.

They're really pushing for subscription I received my third email today.

deezell

Tell them to shove it up their... There is way too much well priced brand stuff out there, as well as multi zone, Hot water timer, smart TRVs, and Open Therm control if you have CH only and a single zone. If you want basic smart stat with an app, lots of sub €50 options, most with Home automation integration, so you could script in your own geolocation, weather watch etc.

How much are they looking for btw?

Banjo Carney

This is from them. It's €10 per month after December 10th

We’re letting you know that our Terms of Service will change from 1st January. To ensure we can provide you with our service and support, we’re offering a discounted fee of €5.35 pm if you subscribe before the 10th of December.

deezell

€64 per year. I'm out. If you want, Email them to come out and remove it, and tell them that you have a new wired (Tado) stat and the uninstaller has to put it in instead. That might make things interesting.

Banjo Carney

They actually expect you to post it back to them if you're not subscribing 😊

Any chance of a link to the best tado to replace it. It's a single zone when heating is on water is on so basically just need it to switch on at a set temp. Thanks

sameoldname

Having actually interacted with the CEO of this company on more than one occasion, this does not exactly come as a shock.

deezell

Tado wired starter is the simplest install, it will wire directly in place if the Hub. Its hard to find at the moment, other than on their own website, £179 for new starter kit, £149 for as new refurbished. (Prices on Tado.com/ie site are inexplicably in £, a pre brexit hangup). The Tado wireless starter kit in Screwfix in Black is a steal at €119, it has the extra option for hot water timing on the receiver, and portable placement of the stat. It would require a connection from its receiver to the control wires going into the boiler. The receiver could also be mounted and wired in place of the Hub C, provided the hub has both live and neutral wires to power it.

Depending on whither the original stat that the Hub C replaced had these, it would be possible to power the wireless Tado receiver at this location. If you want to pop the Hub C off its base and take an image of the base wiring to see if it's two wire or three. The Hub C itself runs from a battery which can parasitically take a charge from the live voltage it is switching to the boiler, so it would still work without full mains if your original stat was a simple two wire unpowered mechanical one.

This method of powering the Hub C was novel, but Hub c users who powered down their heating for the summer sometimes found the Hub C unresponsive on switch on as the internal battery had discharged, and it might take several days for the parasitic charge to restore it.

If you go for the Tado wireless, you will need a certain level of competency to wire in the receiver, but it's not that difficult, and a good sparks will have it in in a jiffy.

Banjo Carney

Thanks for the info. I'm strongly considering the tado wireless seems a great price for what you get. I'll take the front off the hub controller over the weekend and see how many wires there are.

There was a digital EPH timer there before the hub controller

deezell

Then there will be mains Live and Neutral there, so tado receiver can be sited at that location. Had the eph got zones, 1/2 CH, HW, or was it a single zone digital timer.

Banjo Carney

Thanks for your reply it was single zone

Banjo Carney

Had a look at the wiring on the hub controller. It has 3 wires live, neutral and V1. Does this mean the tado receiver is a straight swap. Thanks.

deezell

Yes. Live and Neutral in to the Tado receiver, a short wire link from Live to Common, or COM on the CH relay terminals, then connect V1 wire to the NO or Normally Open terminal of the CH relay. The receiver (aka the extension kit) will fit over the space of the Hub C. The new version of the extension kit doesn't have a baseplate, wires go up and into a small terminal block on the bottom of the ext kit. You have to link the live to the CH relay COM as it's not internally connected like the Hub C. This was done to facilitate connection to volt free or low voltage boiler interfaces.

Here's the ext. kit receiver with the cover off.

Banjo Carney

Brilliant Deezell really appreciate your help especially going to the trouble of posting the pic. Thanks

scholes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119945516#Comment_119945516

Hi Deezel,

Hope this isn't a stupid question but we have the hub controller and I'm not prepared to pay a subscription. I think the idea of it saving money is outrageous as we have a wood burning stove and we only use boost but this hub controller never worked for us as the thermometer is on the controller which is situated directly under the boiler so we have to set it up as 28 degrees otherwise it keeps turning off. It is useless and sometimes it doesn't work when you try and turn it on with the touch screen. So we still use it the same as our own controller and we were told we would never have to pay.

I have no intention of paying a subscription.

Could I ask , do you know if their is a boost option on the tado ? as this is what we use practically all the time. Also our boiler heats rads and water only at same time. To heat water only we have a lever at the tank.

Many thanks

deezell

Yes it does have boost, with multiple options. Heres a screenshot of the app, this zone schedule has dropped to 17.5° at 12:00 midnight, and is currently at 20° and cooling.

If I just slide the centre bar up to a new temperature, it will heat to it for the time adjustable on the bottom configurator. In this case I set temperature up to 20.5° for 10 minutes, and it starts counting down. It will return to the scheduled temperature setting at 12:12.

I can resume the schedule at any time by tapping the Resume Schedule button. You can edit the duration of the boost with a slider, and choose a user defined time, or resume at the the next scheduled change, or leave it manually adjusted indefinitely until you press Resume Schedule.

There is also a quick boost button on the home page, which just Jacks all zones up to 25° for 30 mins, which is probably too high for too long.

After pressing Boost

If you replace your Hub with a Tado wireless starter kit, currently only €119 in screwfix, you can place the portable stat in a new optimal location, maybe the hall or sitting room, and wire the receiver in place of the hub.

The Tado extension kit receiver has the option to time HW seperately and has a second relay on the receiver for this. ( see previous post image). With the addition of a motorised valve in place of your lever valve, and the correct wiring, you can have it that any scheduled HW timings will fire the boiler but not open the motorised valve for CH. Only CH scheduled events will fire the boiler and open the CH valve. This is something that could be added later at reasonable cost. Motorised Valve about €80, plus labour to fit, an hour or so, then some additions to the wiring to fire the boiler from the valve built in relay when CH is on.

I can't believe the incompetence to position your hub stat in a totally inappropriate location, but then, they didn't give a sht, just fling it in and clock up another subsidy in the kitty. You obviously didn't have an existing wall stat to swap out for the Hub C, so they just banged it in next to the boiler, and made their escape, rather than install a cable run from the boiler to a suitable stat location. All it is in this current location is a glorified timer. With the Tado stat properly located and set to modest temperature of say 21° for a scheduled time, say 4pm till 10pm, it will call the CH and heat the room to 21°, but if you light the stove, the Tado will automatically stop calling the boiler when the heat from the stove brings the room up to 21. As the stove burns down, the Tado will only call the boiler when it's required to bring the room back to the schedule. You won't have to intervene with a boost button.

This is how my system works, oil boiler and boiler stove. Stove heats the TV room but also the radiator flow water, and when it gets going it cuts the heating from the oil while its heating the radiator water. Its a bit more complicated that just a non boiler wood stove, but the idea is the same, the oil (or gas) boiler only operates when the stove is not supplying heat to the scheduled temperature setting.

scholes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119947164#Comment_119947164

Hi Deezel,

Thank you very much for spending so much time doing up this post. It is very much appreciated. Yes they just installed the hub directly under the boiler so it is never an accurate temperature. The boiler is in the kitchen and the hub would turn off saying it is 22 degrees in the kitchen when it is only 16. Its an absolute joke. So we have to put the temperature on it to nearly max otherwise it keeps turning off , so we cant even get hot water for a shower. Of course it would save money but you would have to wear a wool jumper in the house. It defeats the whole purpose. I emailed them back

asking for an electrician to remove this and put back the existing one but haven't had a reply after their subscription email.

Thanks again

Deezel

deezell

That beggars belief.. Was the existing device probably just a timer device next to your boiler? The Hub is a Room thermostat, it's supposed to be located in a central reception area, hall, landing, living room etc, so it will heat that area to the correct temperature, and by extension the associated areas once the radiators are on, and flow balanced. And this was the Hub company promo in cahoots with your energy supplier who done this? As there wasn't an existing stat, they weren't going to run a pair of wires, even untidily, to a better spot. Your installation needed a wireless stat, Tado, Wiser, Nest, Hive and others. This is actually a disgrace. According to @Banjo Carney they won't remove it, or reinstate what you had, they actually expect you to do it and post it back to them.

Pick up up the Tado Black wireless starter kit ASAP from Screwfix, its at a bargain price. The only install required is to swap it for that Hub yoke, fix it to the wall beside the boiler, then put the stat in the hall or living room, on the wall or on a little portable stand you can buy. Get in an electrician to do it tidily if you're not into DIY.

scholes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119947565#Comment_119947565

Thanks a mill deezell , I have just ordered that on screwfix. It was a promotion where it was supposed to be free with no hidden charges. Now they are trying to charge. It was never a benefit to us as it just kept turning off the heat. Thanks again