Hub Controller options

mower

hi.i am also getting rid of hub c,would the hive active v3 be a direct replacement or would that require extra wiring,cheers.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120271603#Comment_120271603

V3 single zone will replace the HC, the Hive stat is wirelessly connected to the Hive receiver, which is wired in place of the HC. There needs to be mains Live and Neutral at the site of the HC, in order to power the Hive receiver, as the HC is capable of operating in a passive mode where no Neutrak wire is present, using parasitic power feed from the HC switched live terminals.

The HC does not have control of HW timing, you may need to consider how this is currently implemented. The HIve V3 has a two channel model for CH and HW, if your current system has these as separate zones.

It may be more convenient to site the receiver of the Hive beside the zone valves, if you system has these, or next to the boiler if its wired straight to it. Check the wiring behind the HC, see if it has L and N in.

Also see if your system has zone valves and establish how HW is controlled. Do you have a HW cylinder, or HW direct from the boiler. Does it heat with CH? Can you have HW only in the summer?

mower

thanks for getting back to me.i have a gas boiler,hw cylinder heats up when heating is on, lever on cylinder to switch between hw or heating.popped open the hub c the wiring from top to bottom is brown black then blue,thanks again.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120273279#Comment_120273279

A Tado wired directly in place of the HC, or a Hive mini wireless receiver, with it's Hive wireless stat located where you like. Either are DIY tasks with care.

Later you could get the lever valve replaced with a motorised one for CH or two for independent HE and CH. If you opt for Tado wired, you can later add the wireless receiver next to the new motorised valve(s), to turn off the CH and still have HW only from the App. There will be some wiring involved in this. If you opt for a wireless Hive or other, you can get the one with a CH and HW receiver, which gives you the option to automate HW only at a later date, which would likely involve relocating the receiver beside the motorised valve(s).

mower

thanks again for all the great advice,have narrowed my choice down to the Tado or the Hive Active V3.i have three wires in the hub c,will that be enough for the hive,cheers.

Banjo Carney

Out of curiosity does anyone still have the hub and hasn't subscribed. I'd be interested to know if it stopped working altogether or if its just the functionality with the app that stopped.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120286829#Comment_120286829

Yes, Neutral and Live, to the first two terminals on the receiver backplate, N and L, a small loop from Live to Common (terminal 1), then the third (black) wire back to the boiler, SL, on terminal 3.

If you buy the HW version in case you implement independent HW control in the future, the base wiring is slightly different. No loop to common, its done internally, and CH SL is on terminal 4.

CH only receiver

With the Tado wired the you just use Live and the Boiler SL wire to Com and NO (normally open) on the Tado plate, and tape up or park the unused N.

mower

cheers ,great info well explained.thanks again

Moving2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120286909#Comment_120286909

I didn’t get around to replacing mine yet, they’ve said that it will stop working from tomorrow. Replacing it is on my to-do list, I’ll have a read through this thread when I do.

Their last email says the following:

“

This means that if you don't subscribe you will no longer have access to:

- The app functionality: remote control and schedule feature

-Automatic Energy Reduction Technology: your heating bill will increase by up to 36%

- Lifetime warranty: in case of a call-out there is a charge of €120

“

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120294904#Comment_120294904

... Increase by 36%... What a load of b****x. How does it work when the Internet is down? I'm guessing it has the same schedules. Actually, try this. Disconnect your router from the WAN, if its over an ordinary phone line or TV cable. See if the app still connects locally peer to peer over the WiFi. Even if it doesn't, see if the schedule is maintained. Try this also. Go into the hub settings and disconnect from the WiFi . See how it works, does it run to schedule, can you make changes via the screen etc. You can leave it disconnected if you suspect they may use the Internet connection to meddle with it post subscription expiry I'd be curious also as to how it would work if you reconnected its WiFi to a hotspot on your phone, it might maintain a peer to peer connection if the app still had some functionality after the deadline.

Moving2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120295019#Comment_120295019

The screen doesn’t allow you to edit the schedule it can only be done via the app on a live internet connection.

I agree with you on the 36%. That’s always been a lie they’ve peddled, they oversold and under delivered imo. I’ve been meaning to pull the plug on it for a while but haven’t had the time to find an alternative.

Noworries!

Hi all!

I'm replacing the hub with a Tado wireless. The old system was a thermostat in the Hallway and the timer in a utility room. Hub replaced the timer with their digital controller and I could broadly control the heating by setting the thermostat to a temp in the hall and then when the heating came on it would not breach that temp and would heat h/w and c/h.

I could get hot water only by turning the hall thermostat all the way down to zero and switching on the hub... I hope that makes sense!

What would the best way to wire up the Tado that it would either control the temp or default to hw only when i put on system at lowest temp.

Any help gratefully received!

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120295420#Comment_120295420

The cowboys who installed those hub controllers should be locked up, preferably in a freezing cell not properly controlled by a Hub. Your Hub should have been located where your stat was, not in the utility room. The hub controller is a thermostat, how can it accurately control home temperature if its stuck in the utility. The original wall stat obviously only had live and switched live wires, no neutral to power it, and they were never going to run a new wire.

When you drop kick it's useless ass into the bin, fit the Tado anywhere suitable, as it's wireless. Now, your system is obviously connected so that a timer used to fire the boiler, and the old thermostat turned on CH by either turning on the circulation pump ,or by opening a motorised a CH valve (if the circulation pump always comes on with the boiler, which would be the case with a gas boiler). Roughly speaking, you have a system where HW always heats when the boiler is on, but CH only heats when either the external pump is on, or a motorised valve is open. You'll need to give a bit more info, where your boiler is, gas or oil, what model if its gas, if the HW cylinder is upstairs etc.

The Tado receiver with two relays for HW and CH can be wired to simulate this old arrangement, but it's important that the boiler and pump or valve are located together to facilitate the logic and wiring, whereby the boiler fires if either the CH or HW relay closes, but CH only comes on when CH relay opens. Once I know what you have, I'll post the wiring of the Tado receiver to achieve 'gravity' mode.

Noworries!

Hi Deezel, I was hoping you'd respond! The boiler is outside, and its oil fired. The hot water cylinder is upstairs in the hot press also with an immersion but I dont care about that as I never use it.

deezell

Wire the Tado receiver in place of the hub. Wire the neutral to N, wire the live to L, with a link to CH COM. Wire the switched live to the boiler on the V terminal of the hub to the CH NO terminal.

Place the wireless thermostat in an optimum location like hall or living room. Turn the old stat up high, the Tado stat will call the the boiler and control the temperature of the general area. HW will heat while CH is on.

Noworries!

And is there a way then of just having hot water but no ch, for during the long hot summers?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120296073#Comment_120296073

Yes, as originally you would have had HW only by turning down the old stat, which didn't power off the boiler, but either turned off the circulation pump, or closed a motorised valve. You said this still worked with hub, as when you turned down the old stat, HW would heat if you then turned on the hub above its set temperature. This odd arrangement will still work with the Tado, but as you now have a spare HW ON timer relay in the Tado receiver, it will be possible to wire the Tado in such a way as to operate in Gravity mode, so that timed schedule for HW only fires the boiler, but timed events from the wireless CH thermostat fire the boiler, and operate the pump (or open a valve, whichever you have). If you tun on heating and then turn down the old stat like you used to, see if the pump stops running while the boiler is firing, or if there is a motorised valve somewhere between the pump and the rads that s closing. There is a simple wiring scheme to create gravity mode on the Tado receiver terminals,I'll dig out the sketch and post it.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120296073#Comment_120296073

Here's the sketch which implements gravity control.

Neutral blue to N

Live brown goes to L, CH COM, and HW NO.

CH NO goes to the valve or pump, and loops to HW NC.

HW COM goes to the boiler SL.

For HW only timer, the boiler fires

For CH only timer, the pump/valve is powered, and the Boiler fires via CH NO to HW NC to HW COM.

For both timers, HW COM fires the boiler. CH NO powers the pump

Noworries!

Trying to figure out what the different wires do now! Thanks buddy, appreciate the help

deezell

NO means Normally open. When the relay is off, Com or common is connected to NC, Normally closed. When the zone switches on, the relay flips, Com is now connected to NO, and NC is disconnected from Com. I devised the diagram above originally for the Nest Receiver which also has two zones with Single pole double throw (SPDT) relays, in order to mimic gravity mode. Gravity mode is available in many dual zone controllers by means of a dip switch or jumpers, or in software configuration, such as the Hive two zone, or the original tado Extension kit receiver. The new Tado extension kit is a volt free double throw receiver, I'm not aware that it can be soft configured to gravity mode, but this simple wiring plan does the same.

This is the better drawn version for Nest

Trish 555

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119921389#Comment_119921389

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119945516#Comment_119945516

Deezel I would just like to than you for your very informative posts I found this when I google about the hub last year when they were looking for a subscription I took your advice and bought the Tado last Xmas but I was still using the hub as they hadn’t cut off the app so yesterday the app stopped working and I referred back to your posts and I was able to follow your instructions with the pics and it was fairly straightforward I really couldn’t make sense of the instructions that came with it Now as a 62 year old woman who likes a bit of diy you made it so much simpler so Thank you so much

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121236397#Comment_121236397

Hub crowd obviously spent all the massive eu grant money that was given to the utilities to promote the installation of their trivial device. A sub was their next cash cow. The market for real properly engineered smart thermostats is alive and well, competitive, feature rich and not distorted by a grant feeding frenzy (which is destroying competition in the solar and energy upgrade markets). Spend a bit of time exploring the App. Lots of nice features. No bother to a tech savvy not-yet-senior diy fan.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120286909#Comment_120286909

Mine kept working with the app up to mid September when I replaced it.

littlelady81

Do you know if you can adjust the schedule on the screen? Also what other replacement options are available that don’t have a subscription?

Banjo Carney

With much appreciated help from @deezel I fitted a tado last December. It worked flawlessly until today. My tripswitch started tripping and by process of elimination I traced it to the wireless receiver.

Checked the wiring and all looks good. I had a quick look at the boiler and there's no obvious damage to wires or water leaking on connections. I've disconnected it for now.

What could the problem be, could it be the receiver itself. Any help much appreciated

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121307157#Comment_121307157

Is it tripping Current breaker, i.e, a resetable fuse, say 15a or 20a, or is it tripping an RCB (Residual Current Breaker aka Earth Leakage Circuit Brraker) breaker? Are you operating motorised valves with power from the extension kit receiver? Any traces of moisture inside these could cause an imbalance between live current out and return current on the neutral, 30ma is all it takes to tripping an RCB. Tripping a circuit breaker on the other hand is a current overload, often a short, where a hot wire is touching the metal of an earthed casing, like a wall box. These can have sharp edges, and pulling at wires during installation may have cut through the insulation on a metal edge.

Banjo Carney

Thanks for replying. This is what's tripping. I have no motorised valves. The wires aren't coming through a metal wall box either so I'm at a loss as to what's going on and why now after ten months

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121307666#Comment_121307666

Firstly, you wired the Tado receiver (ext kit) in place of the hub controller. You only used the CH terminals. You would have required a link from the Live in on the ext kit to the Com or common of the CH relay in the receiver, and the SL (Switched Live) from the CH normally open contact goes directly to fire the boiler, and turn on the circulation pump. The breaker you show is an RCB, which trips when a small difference of >30 milliamps current is detected in the current going out the live and returning through the neutral. This indicates a leak to ground in the insulation of live components being supplied.

You've identified the ext. kit receiver as the source, and I'm assuming it trips when the stat attempts to fire the boiler. The simplest test is to lift the live out wire from the CH normally open (NO) contact in the receiver, power it on and turn up the stat. If the receiver clicks and closes the CH relay without tripping, but does trip when the NO contact is reconnected, its safe to assume there's an earth leak from the CH relay live in to the boiler. This Live most likely also directly powers the circulation pump. These can occasionally leak water into the stator coils, causing a live leak to ground. Its either the pump, or the boiler.

Is your boiler is a modern one which is separately powered, from a hardwired wall point, or is it powered directly from the live coming from the Tado receiver. There are ample opportunities in a boiler for drips and drops of condensation or a leak to get onto the many live components in the boiler. First test is to isolate the circulation pump and see does the tripping stop when the stat is turned up. A sparks with a good meter is probably required, but this is his workflow to isolate the earth leak. There are numerous places in the boiler where this could occur, but either of the internal jacket thermostats, temperature and limit stat, could be the souce, as they may be in contact with the hot flow, and could allow some water to enter their sensor.

Banjo Carney

Thanks for the detailed information as always, much appreciated. I'll take your advice and get an electrician in. Thanks again.

sharkman

Guys , can I jump in ? looking for some advice on a tado system with thermo, extension kit and bridge . The plumber wired it up several years ago and worked fine until last weekend . There are two valves fitted in hot press to control hot water and/or hot water . Now its gone haywire and always calling for heat . He also fitted a thermostat on the boiler which is wired into the extension kit . Can you recommend an electrician that is familiar with Tado ? have photos of the wiring if they are any use ..

deezell

You mean and/or central heating? Two valves means it can have either on without the other. Your HW valve may be mechanically stuck open, there are microswirches in the valves which call the boiler once the valve is open, so neither of the extension kit live outputs, CH or HW, are actually connected into the boiler to fire it. Its known as S plan. The exr kit lives are connected to the valves motors.

This extra thermostat you mention though is worrying. A picture of that maybe, and the baseplate of the extension kit (it should be the older model where you can pop off the ext. kit unit, leaving the plate and the wiring).

bruce wayne

Guys, can anyone help with a weird issue.

I have recently replaced my hub controller with a hive mini bought earlier this year (thanks to the tip off earlier in this thread). I reused the existing wiring from the hub controller and added a bridge between live and common. So wiring is going into N, L, C and 3. I have a green light on the receiver. All three components (thermostat, hub and receiver) are showing as connected and active, but neither the boost or scheduled timer is getting the heating to kick in? Its a single channel receiver only controlling the CH.

If I press boost on the app, the bottom of the two green lights on the receiver turns on so it is indicating that the receiver has received the instruction and activated (at this point both green lights are active) - the boost is set to 23 and current temp is 19, so its not the temp - so I'm a bit stumped? any ideas?

My boiler is a Viessmann combi, installed July last year and is working absolutely fine (we just have to manually turn on the heating, until we get the hive working 😥)

any ideas or suggestions appreciated

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121340913#Comment_121340913

First suggestion, you've accidentally connected the Live and Neutral in reverse. The receiver won't mind, AC has no polarity, the receiver works fine, but it means your link from L to 1, the CH Common, is the neutral wire, which won't supply power out of the CH Heating on terminal 3.

Second suggestion, which is very unlikely. You have a Mini with a HW relay, which you don't need, but this version put HW live out on 3, and CH live out on 4, with the link from live to Common made internally. This one has an extra green led on the bottom with a little tap.

bruce wayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121342473#Comment_121342473

Yep, unbelievably your first suggestion was spot on, once I swapped the Live and Neutral around it worked. Thank you

In my defense the cables from the hub controller were all the same colour, but numbered! I was pretty sure I had mapped them correctly, especially when the receiver was lighting up!

Thank you again

B

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121343987#Comment_121343987

Everyone should own a €2 phase tester screwdriver, which lights up when touched on a Live conductor, with your thumb on the handle end. Tado I think included a mini one free with their stat kits.

WestWicklow1

Black Friday on Screwfix...

TADO V3+ WIRELESS HEATING & HOT WATER SMART THERMOSTAT STARTER KIT WHITE €109.95

TADO V3+ BLACK EDITION WIRELESS HEATING & HOT WATER SMART THERMOSTAT STARTER KIT BLACK €104.95

Can I ask, will these...

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/tado-basic-white-smart-radiator-thermostat-4-pack/837kg

or these...

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/tado-white-smart-trv-head-4-pack/793pg

...screw onto and work in place of my existing manual heads without the need to replace the actual valves?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362347#Comment_121362347

If you have manual thermostatic valve heads, the answer is a qualified yes. Either directly, with a supplied adapter, and for odd sized valves, with a special adapter. Some adapters hard to find and expensive.

0130_B_SRT_Compatibility_Guide_EN.pdf

Moving2017

I have a combi boiler and want to replace a HC as I miss the remote switch on… is the tado v3+ wireless the best and easiest DIY option?

or is it the wired version I should be buying?

Prefect_1998

afternoon, i know how long is a pience of string, but what would a average dublin price to fit the following : Tado V3+ Wireless Heating & Hot Water Smart Thermostat Starter Kit White - Screwfix

its an older boiler with a built in analogue clock style timer.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363465#Comment_121363465

If you already have a wired wall thermostat for the CH which calls the boiler, the tado wired is the best option, but the existing stat must be a boiler call, not just a call to a pump or valve. Your HW is on demand from the combi. How do you currently turn on and control CH? By HC do you mean Heating Controller? What do you currently have? What did you have that you 'miss'?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363584#Comment_121363584

Do you have a wall stat? Or is your heating controlled solely by setting the built on timer on and off. How is Hot water supplied?

Prefect_1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363640#Comment_121363640

Thanks for reading my questions

the boiler has an inbuilt analogue timer by the looks of it, it is a vokera mynute 14se

no wall stat

not a combi boiler, so hot water tank in hot press

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363652#Comment_121363652

Do you have to turn on heating to get HW from the boiler, or is there a switch to select HW only. Or is it only used for heating?

Moving2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363631#Comment_121363631

Thanks Deezel.

I used HC for Hub controller.

I have a hub controller that I’m not paying a sub for, so it’s essentially a dumb electric on switch.

I want something that allows me to set a schedule to turn the heating on in the morning and turn on the heating remotely from my phone (it’s the remote on switch that I miss from the hub, I never used their “smart” features.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363699#Comment_121363699

You didn't use their smart features because it doesn't have any, except in their imagination. If you're happy with the location of the HC as your thermostat, then a wired Tado is a simple replacement. I gave wiring details for this a few posts back to... I can't remember, I'll have a look.

Moving2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363718#Comment_121363718

Ideally I’d love to move it to the hallway (where hub told me it couldn’t go due to a window but I think was more lazyness on their behalf).

But for ease if it’s a simple change I’m happy to do that too. Will look back posts. Appreciate your help deezell.

Prefect_1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363698#Comment_121363698

only used for heating no water specific function

WestWicklow1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362388#Comment_121362388

Thank you @deezell for the info.

Can you tell me what the difference is between Tado's basic TRV head and the smart TRV head?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121364945#Comment_121364945

Afaik the basic one has no led display which shows the temperature, manual/automatic status, and other icons for calibration, configuring etc. Otherwise it has all it needs, motor, temperature sensor, manual adjust input knob and comms back to the bridge. There's very little smarts in the actual trv, it's what app, server and software does with the data it delivers that creates it's behaviour.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121363925#Comment_121363925

The Tado wireless is ideal so. Place the wireless stat in your ideal location, and wire up the receiver next to the boiler, with the CH relay connected into the boiler switched live terminals. Job for a sparks, there's usually two terminals with a link across them which let's the boiler run from its own timer or controls. The two wires from the Tado receiver are connected across this links terminals, with the link removed, the boiler's own timer is set to always on, and the Tado now controls boiler firing in response to the wireless stat time and temperature schedules. I'll have a look at that vokera install instructions tomorrow, for the wiring point.