Cycle to Work dealer upping advertised price.

...Ghost... · 17-11-2022 7:35pm #1

My BIL is in the market for an electric bike. His employer is on board for the cycle to work scheme. I was asked to help him find a bike. I found an e-bike on POGO Cycles who advertise the cycle to work scheme. The chosen bike can be ordered for €1,899.00 from the site which includes VAT, taxes and delivery.

The problem is when going through the bike to work scheme you need to ask for a quote. The quote received lists the following:

Name of bike: €1,899.00

Taxes and admin charge: €474.75

Sub total: €2,373.75

Discount: €118.69

Delivery: €37.98

Total: €2,293.04

So they are charging an extra €394.04 to use the bike to work scheme. This doesn't seem right.

Is it normal to see a seller add admin charges and additional taxes and fees on top of the normal price? It seems odd to me.

After my BIL showed me the invoice, I checked the website to confirm the cart price and then saw they had the following written on their bike to work page:

"Please note cycle to work quotes would have additional taxes. (my emphasis)

To Generate a quote, Follow these steps :-

1) Add the product to your cart

2) Go to your cart.

3) Go to bottom of the page and click on "Request a quote"

4) Fill in the details

5) You will have a quote in your email

6) Submit the quote to your HR

Detailed instructions with images below

Reach out to our support team in case of questions"

So am I right to think this is just price gouging cycle to work scheme customers?

walterking · 17-11-2022 7:37pm

Business to business purchases are normally quoted ex vat (23%)

...Ghost... · 17-11-2022 7:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119886997#Comment_119886997

So the quoted price should be around €1,545...give or take? This was my thinking

standardg60 · 17-11-2022 8:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887009#Comment_119887009

Exactly, you cannot add vat based on an already inc. vat cost, it's a complete scam which should be investigated.

The company who purchases the bike must pay the vat but may not claim it back as part of their normal expenditure, so in effect they are the end user and should be paying the same cost as if you'd bought it yourself.

8valve · 17-11-2022 8:53pm

Is the employer paying the bike supplier directly, or using a third party company to administer the btw scheme for them?

Some third party companies are taking 10-15% of the total transaction cost out of the bike sellers profit margin, whether they be an online supplier or local bike shop. Worth noting. This makes them a less profitable proposition for bike shops.

Buy from a local bike shop would be my advice. However, I may be slightly biased. I work in one.

If a warranty issue arises, how will an online supplier fix it for you?

Wouldn't it be easier to call into a shop where the bike was bought and talk to a human?

Use 'em or lose 'em, folks.

...Ghost... · 17-11-2022 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887257#Comment_119887257

The invoice was for the employer who would pay it and deduct from the employee over whatever period of time they agreed.

A shop would be preferable, but I can't find the particular bike in a B&M shop. The Coswheel T20 is the bike that fit the bill.

MojoMaker · 17-11-2022 9:34pm

Quite a few references to the business being a 'European business', but yet nothing about it being based inside the EU.

The UK for example is very much in Europe, and obviously not inside the EU. Taxes (VAT + Import Duty) and Admin charges sound familiar - they'd hardly be that schnakey would they?

...Ghost... · 17-11-2022 9:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887398#Comment_119887398

Listed in D18

I could order for the advertised price with free delivery, but as soon as it becomes a bike to work scheme order, they tack on hundreds of euros.

kippy · 17-11-2022 10:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887487#Comment_119887487

Plenty places don't do this and are good to deal with. If you have the option I would look for it elsewhere.

standardg60 · 17-11-2022 10:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887257#Comment_119887257

Have you actually any evidence that companies are using a third party supplier? I don't see how that would make any sense, and if it was the true the third party would be charging the company and not the bike shop. In any case the OP said the invoice was received directly from the supplier.

Does your bike shop charge the same price for btw schemes as a walk in?

17-11-2022 10:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887620#Comment_119887620

https://www.biketowork.ie

...

It makes perfect sense because employers only have to set up one supplier on their systems.

8valve · 17-11-2022 10:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887620#Comment_119887620

Yes, plenty of evidence. Third party BTW administering companies offer their services to employers, to administer their employees BTW schemes, at no cost to the employers. They handle the funds and make the payment to the bike shop, minus their fees, which cuts the payment the bike shop receives for the bikes. Basically a percentage of the bikes retail cost, just for filling out some paperwork and a couple of online credit transfers. Nice easy money for them, big chunk of margin loss for the bike shop.

8valve · 17-11-2022 10:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887620#Comment_119887620

And yes, we charge the exact same price for bikes for customers using the BTW scheme or walking into the shop.

standardg60 · 17-11-2022 10:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887647#Comment_119887647

Yeah came up as an ad on my search, we don't charge you we charge the shop who then charge you.

How does anyone fall for this sh!t.

standardg60 · 17-11-2022 10:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119887707#Comment_119887707

Fair play so, assume you don't deal with these third parties, or is it a case of volume versus margins?

At the end of the day the person who ends up paying more in this scenario is the end user and the taxpayer, what's new.

MyDarkArts · 17-11-2022 11:59pm

Not sure where the need for the quote enters the equation. It's not a requirement of the scheme, so presumably that comes from the employer in this case.

AFAIK, there's no need for the sale to even mention that it's part of the B-T-W scheme. Just that the payment for the bike is made by the employer, and presumably any invoice/receipt would therefore be made out to the employer.

CramCycle · 18-11-2022 8:18am

They are just scamming and if your company do pay by card they can just ignore the quote and buy it from the website direct.

Personally though, they look like they are just a forward shipper, nothing illegal, but I'd be going elsewhere as it will be a pain if anything goes wrong.

magicbastarder · 18-11-2022 8:51am

from their FAQ:

"I created a Bike to work quote and there is an additional charge of VAT in it. Why is that there?We are an Ireland registered company and hence we pay this VAT to revenue.

None of this amount you pay stays with us :)"

they only add VAT on BTW purchases? what horse ****.

Dr Turk Turkelton · 18-11-2022 9:08am

Maybe drop Revenue an email with all that has happened here.

They could be very interested in the way this company operates.

CantGetNoSleep · 18-11-2022 9:54am

I would agree with the suggestions of finding a different bike and a different store

...Ghost... · 18-11-2022 7:27pm

It's very messy the way POGO is doing it. My BIL does want that particular model, so will have his employer order it and go from there. Thanks to @MyDarkArts for suggesting an invoice is not needed in this case.

ted1 · 18-11-2022 7:42pm

Check this out. Avoid at all costs:

SECTION 13 - DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES; LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

We are a marketplace which means all products are sold on our website are straight from manufacturers. we shall have no liability whatsoever arising from using the products sold on our website

magicbastarder · 18-11-2022 7:48pm

there are two bikes on the site marked at €1899 currently and both are legally mopeds, not bicycles.

one of them has a 1000W motor and is listed at 48KG!

...Ghost... · 18-11-2022 8:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119891269#Comment_119891269

They all arrive speed and power restricted.

ted1 · 18-11-2022 11:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119891540#Comment_119891540

I seriously doubt it.

magicbastarder · 19-11-2022 2:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119891540#Comment_119891540

why would you buy a bike with a 1000W motor restricted to 250W?

CramCycle · 19-11-2022 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119891257#Comment_119891257

Aside from they can't legally do that, I mean jebus. Report to revenue (CCPC won't engage) and be glad you dodged it. The tax claims about VAT will warrant an investigation and I suspect their books are a little off.

19-11-2022 10:48am

That place looks as dodgy as ****.

there’s a “bike” on there with a 1500w motor and a range if 60km in “pure electric” mode.

they are electric motorbikes and yet you see kids riding these things to school.

...Ghost... · 19-11-2022 11:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119892549#Comment_119892549

The bike isn't for me, but there is a very good reason for the restriction of power and speed. First and foremost, anything above 250W motor, or 25km/h speed are illegal under the new laws coming into force, regulating the use of e-things. Secondly, a 1000W motor limited to 250W is only performing at 25% capacity or less, therefore reducing stress on the motor and increasing the life span. Finally, my BIL chose it.

CantGetNoSleep · 19-11-2022 11:15am

Given that there is the price issue that you first raised, potential tax issues, questions around the legality of the bike, and most importantly of all, no warranty (there are a lot of things to go wrong on an ebike), would you not tell your brother in law to reconsider his choice?

...Ghost... · 19-11-2022 11:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119893006#Comment_119893006

Original issue: Since posting, I found the reason for the hike in price. As POGO are a reseller, they are using Lets Cycle for the bike to work orders. I don't know the details of the agreement, but it lends to reason that they can't match the €1900 price when Lets Cycle are selling for €2373.

Tax issue: I see no potential tax issues. Purchased via the website and shipped within Europe, there is no tax liability for the customer and no mention of dodgy dealings in any trustpilot reviews, of which there are many.

Legality of bike: E-bikes and scooters are technically still illegal until the new legislation passes. He currently uses an e-scooter and is less likely to have a legal issue on an e-bike, so that's not a concern and doesn't prevent countless numbers of people from using these devices on our roads, myself included in the past.

Warranty: Again, not really concerned here. If there were to be an issue regarding warranty and POGO were unwilling to assist (as is their legal requirement as the actual seller despite their poor attempt to write their way out of responsibility) I could be enough of a thorn in their side to make them reconsider. I've done it several times before when sellers both online and B&M shops tried to side-step their responsibility and pass the issue to the manufacturer. The Coswheel T20 does seem to be one of the more reliable e-bikes out there though. Should small issues arise, we are an extended family with some technical skills at our disposal.

My BIL can make his own purchasing decisions. I just gave him a few options.

Cycle to Work dealer upping advertised price.

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