Was/is the protesting at East Wall Racist?

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911561#Comment_119911561

I don't think what you describe has ever been the collective philosophy of the West. The idea that Western kingdoms, empires and later nation states thrived off a simple inward looking philosophy of just leaving the rest of the world well alone is just not a realistic view. In both good ways and bad ways, the safeguarding of the hegemony of the Western liberal and economic order has been achieved through the expansion and projection of that order across the world — in more recent decades by a less antagonistic and imperialist approach.

Indeed, historical context as to how the strength of the West was built suggests that taking an active role in global affairs (rightly or wrongly) was the very thing that gave it prominence and hegemony — and absolutely not a world view that ended at the doorstep of each of the Western powers.

Even with that aside, the argument of "importing more problems" should always be balanced with the question of "home-baking more problems". We are a small vulnerable economy on the fringe of Europe that has achieved hugely disproportionate and unprecedented levels of general prosperity and wellbeing for inhabitants of this island. That has not been achieved by turning our back on the world around us, quite the opposite really. Rejecting our role of sharing certain responsibilities with our Western allies, even where that can impose burdens, is not something that can be done easily without creating other issues for ourselves in the long term.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914180#Comment_119914180

It's a misapplication of blame for those problems though. Refugees and migrants are not muscling Irish professionals out of jobs, nor are migrants in significant number outmuscling Irish professionals for their dream home. The entire culture of our country as regards property has been undergoing huge changes as better prospects in Ireland mean more Irish professionals wanting to stay, which has led to greater urbanisation, which has led to greater demand for a market suited to an urbanising society (i.e. high density apartment communities and greafe sustainability of long term renting). The failure has been a lack of foresight and courage of successive governments to be radical and act with due urgency to overhaul the entire policy of Irish housing. It is not caused by immigration.

I'm angry too. I'm a qualified professional with a partner who is a teacher and even with the privilege of good steady income we have had to move in with a parent far outside of Dublin just to be able to actually save money at a rate that's realistic to get within a donkey's roar of being able to put down a deposit for a house within a couple of years. The prospect of leaving becomes more and more attractive. But while I can see that, for sure, the current crisis caused by the war in Ukraine is exacerbating issues — the real blame lies in poor long term housing policy and the long term effects of the Covid lockdowns.

Fandymo

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914220#Comment_119914220

Unless they’re coming with houses on their backs, they’re exacerbating the housing issue.

Thelonious Monk

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914180#Comment_119914180

Actually latest CSO figures say more Irish are moving here than leaving. Nowhere really in the anglophone world you could move to and get a place easily these days.

3rd world health service is a bit harsh too. My partner works for the NHS currently and is taking a job in Dublin in new year. Most Irish medics want to work in Ireland after doing stints abroad.

mikemac2

Yes

I see citizen journalist Philip Dwyer harassing TG4 during a live broadcast and putting blame on them. Poor TG4

Which reminded me of 2-3 years ago when Nuacht were harassed outside the Dáil by the National Party and were wonderfully put in their place an bhfuil aon Gaelige agat by the reporter? And none them did

The Irish language has nothing much to do with East Wall or politics. Dwyer and his flag waving ex-comrades (as I believe he was put out of the party) could make a little effort though haha 😌

For now they are just interfering, I doubt the locals want them hijacking the coverage

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914180#Comment_119914180

the irish who qualify for nothing, leaving in their droves, the educated ones. Rip off housing, marginal rate of tax etc, to work in a third world health service. Meanwhile, we import these chancers, to benefit from the worlds most lax and generous welfare state,,,

Which is it?

It can't be both.

Thelonious Monk

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914369#Comment_119914369

lol that's some paradox. The fact of Irish people leaving in their droves isn't true, nor is the fact that they qualify for nothing. Yet the post racks up the thanks. People just believe what they want to believe.

Fandymo

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914369#Comment_119914369

Of course it can be both.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914536#Comment_119914536

It can't because that would be illogical.

Fandymo

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914556#Comment_119914556

Logic not a strongpoint??

The Irish who qualify for nothing (one subset of the entire Irish population of Ireland) are leaving in their droves.

Other Irish who are unemployed, working in low paid jobs, etc (a completely different subset of the entire Irish population of Ireland) stay and can access the generous social welfare payments, medical cards etc., along with our imported low level layabouts.

I’ve worked since 16, pay thousands in tax each year and qualify for a free eye test every 2 years and a clean and scale once a year. I’ve to pay €70 to see a GP two weeks after I’m I’ll if I can get an appointment at all on top of paying mental rent, etc,

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914585#Comment_119914585

So the Irish qualify for nothing, except for the Irish that qualify for everything. 😂

That lad made an absolute holy show of himself, with his "facts" and glaring paradoxical grand statements.

One Question. What in the name Jaysus possessed you to take that crazy ball of scutter and double down on it?

Also from my experience the heroes who proclaim how much tax they pay are usually protesting a bit too much.

Thelonious Monk

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914585#Comment_119914585

but they're not leaving in their droves, did you not see the graph with the statistics above? it would be truer to say they are returning to ireland in their droves

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914643#Comment_119914643

Get up the yard with your facts. They are not welcome in Bizarro World.

😂

Thelonious Monk

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914641#Comment_119914641

I think they're all just really unhappy people to be complaining this much when they live in a safe, wealthy country

Thelonious Monk

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914654#Comment_119914654

the thing is they'll just completely ignore the facts and continue on rabbling, it's crazy to see

Dyr

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914296#Comment_119914296

The HSE is probably great if you're working for it, that's not the metric by which you measure a health service , unless you're a socialist of course. 😂

Also 60 thousand net immigration in four months but those 60 thousand people had no effect on the housing crisis,apparently

The bould heroes at Gript went into detail on that graphic. Turns out that almost 20 per cent of the people now living in Ireland were not born in Ireland:

https://gript.ie/number-of-non-irish-nationals-understated-by-almost-40-in-cso-reports/

Thelonious Monk

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914724#Comment_119914724

he was said they were leaving because they had to work in a third world health service

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914724#Comment_119914724

Turns out that almost 20 per cent of the people now living in Ireland were not born in Ireland:

Well no it doesn't, even the "Doctor" that wrote the blog doesn't claim that for definite.

He is making wild assumptions about the 2016 census.

In fact it suggests that the figure given by the CSO is understated by 37.9%

In fact I would suggest the "Doctor" is talking out of his hole.

That would be par for the course for anyone writing for Irelands favourite racist god bothering blog.

Quitelife

East Wall is one of the most lawless Areas in Ireland . Quite a number of murders in this area or close by it, that poor lady working in IFSC or the Deliveroo cases or all the Kinahan murders . Thats outside of youths intimidating everyone or having knife fights with their friends over the bridge in the south inner city. Im sure theres lots of old school East wall types that are salt of the earth but like many other parts of Ireland the scumm that destroy areas are protected by the courts/free legal aid etc.

Hard to know wheather a Ukranian is safer in the Ukraine or East Wall?

Dyr

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914729#Comment_119914729

You'll generally find that motivated and conscientious people don't like working in dysfunctional organisations so they leave. Thats the story of the Irish public sector in a nutshell

mumo3

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914788#Comment_119914788

They're not Ukrainian that's the issue in east wall.... we've all seen the videos, not one women or child fleeing war, seen getting off those buses.

Thelonious Monk

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914793#Comment_119914793

But you just said the HSE is great if you're working for it

mumo3

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914863#Comment_119914863

I would love to see a system like Australia has or even at least see someone deported for carrying out horrific crimes. Its ridiculous that they serve an insulting sentence and then walk out, for probably the state to maintain them until they are locked up again!! We seem to have no problem breeding our own scum here, without importing it.

RandomName2

No

There's no doubt that there are racist elements to the protests, but that doesn't mean that the protests themselves are not without legitimacy.

It's like saying 'Was there an IRA element to the one-man-one-vote protests in NI' - yeah there was, but that's missing the point.

Is Ireland full? We're generally sparsely populated but we do have a housing crisis and our services (health, education) don't have much in the way of additional capacity.

Besides, why the fuc is there no demographic breakdown of these people? Reading between the lines it sounds like none of them are actually from the war in Ukraine.

No

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914902#Comment_119914902

We're completely full.

It's worth remembering that for every migrant that enters this country, it worsens the already problematic accommodation crisis. And then there's school places, GP to patient ratio, and so on. There comes a point when we need to tighten the drawbridge, ensuring that citizens in this country have an optimum quality of life; to put in place measures to fix extant problems in society.

Anyone living in Dublin knows perfectly well that there are far more than 13,000+ Brazilians in the capital:

In April 2016, there were 13,640 Brazilian nationals usually resident in Ireland. Since 2006 the Brazilian population in Ireland has more than trebled in size.

And that's just one nationality. How many more are living here undocumented?

So whether it's about accommodation or GP appointments or school places or the impact on local communities generally, there is a legitimate debate to be had about how large numbers of migrants impact the quality of life of citizens in this country.

Those trying to smear that debate as inherently racist just don't want to admit that they may be wrong.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914902#Comment_119914902

There's no doubt that there are racist elements to the protests, but that doesn't mean that the protests themselves are not without legitimacy.

Legitimate protestors would have ran the racist scum out of East Wall.

From what I have seen in the videos, they did the opposite. They embraced them.

Thelonious Monk

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914949#Comment_119914949

surely our services industries would be fecked without Brazilians though? have you worked in an office in Dublin any time in the last couple of years? all the cleaners are brazilian. they're doing a lot of low paid jobs that irish people wont do

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914949#Comment_119914949

It's worth remembering that for every migrant that enters this country, it worsens the already problematic accommodation crisis.

Really? What about the 1000s we have working in construction or the 1000s more we need to hit housing targets or for our capital projects?

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914949#Comment_119914949

This is the problem with stuff like this, they rely on figures from the state and state connected groups, yet our eyes tell us a different story, yet we are meant to ignore what we see and blindly listen to what we're told. It wouldn't be so bad if the Irish state were both truthful and competent, but we know they are neither, yet still we're meant to put faith in their work.

Thelonious Monk

Yes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914991#Comment_119914991

so you don't think the CSO are being truthful with the stats they produce? what about the balance of payments and economic stats they publish?