World Cup 2022 - discussion of the host country and related issues

DM_7

The tournament has started. Many questions about the tournament got here and many issues continue to develop.

It is important that soccer forum members can discuss these items uninterrupted by posts about games and this is the place to do it for the duration of the actual tournament.

Please discuss the actual games in the relevant thread.

gormdubhgorm

I have thought long and hard as to why there is so much furore over this WC, compared to other WC's and world events when there was no such thing/not near as much ire from certain quarters.

There has been more empty gestures and empty symbolism and empty gestures than at any world event than I can remember. You only have to look at the non-wearing of armbands and the cynical pretence of caring. At the time of writing there a Denmark v Tunisia match. Denmark's shirt sponsor Hummel had a great marketing idea a faded shirt for 'Human Rights'. Now I never would have heard of Hummel only for it great advertising. It is basically performance art dressed up as a 'cause'.

1) Bribery/Corruption - this has been the case at many world cups since the 30's nothing new. But I can't remember the same amount of fuss and finger pointing during those contentious world cups. You have to ask why is that?

2) Workers Rights - Now there has been similar issues at other WC's and world events. Notably Brazil 2014 and the Beijing Olympics 2008. But again there was no real 'Western furore' a little bit of noise but not much. The reality is I am not sure 'the West' really cares about this issue. It is just a line trotted out 'Workers Rights'. When you really research it Kafala was adapted from a scheme by a British Diplomat in British controlled Bahrain.

It is also not lost on me, that the Western Superpower in the World America is extremely anti Trade Union by nature. Also very anti Universal Social Care. Again you have to ask why 'workers rights' talked up so much by 'the West' in such vague details?

During Covid until then I never even considered how the fruit gets into the Jam I buy. The answer is cheap foreign workers on non-contracts who pick the Irish fruit. Irish people are not willing to do it, because the work is so hard and poorly paid.But I still buy jam - normally blackcurrant. The Qatari's ship in foreign workers to build their stadiums, similar issues only it is not mainly picking fruit.

3) LGBT Rights - this is the real big one for 'the West' this is real bugbear. As it is illegal to be gay. But it is and has been illegal in many other countries as well. In Sharia Law the system does not just punish homosexual relations it punishes heterosexual adultery

https://qatarofw.com/qatar-islamic-system-law/

"In Qatar, flogging is an accepted form of punishment as recommended by the Sharia Law. These types of punishments are often used for crimes such as illicit sexual relations or alcohol consumption. For example, if you are caught being adulterous, the Sharia Law states you will get 100 lashes"

"When the adultery is between a non-Muslim man and a Muslim woman, however, the punishment is more severe. This crime is punishable by death"

Now there are all different variations of laws that effect the LGBT community across the world, some are very pro LGBT, some are very anti LGBT and there are some in between. Sovereign states have different rules. In Ireland being Gay used to be illegal not so many years ago. But now we have Gay marriage. Who knows in future decades host could be admonished other nations for simply not having Gay Marriage?

Personally I think the Gay community is probably the most vocal, articulate, and organised minority group I can think of. Perhaps social media has made their advocacy much easier than it has been in the past?

==

I think having looked at all these issues and all the Western furore I have to ask why? It has not really happened before. Yes social media and the internet have been a major impact in the spreading of a 'cause' or spreading the word. But I think it is more than that. It is because the political climate in 'the west' has changed. It is not simply just a new form of colonialism.

The climate have been driven mostly by America with BLM. Empty Gestures and weak symbolism are dressed up as 'powerful' for the new generation online.

The 'taking the knee' has forced it's way into the biggest league in the world the PL. But it is empty/superficial/pointless just an unnecessary layer to the 'kick racism' out campaign IMO. The players now just go through the motions. The same with the 'one love' armbands.

To me a lot of the furore is a consequence of the new superficial nature of 'the west' tied in with the superficial symbolism of causes on social media. This has now fed into football because they want to 'appear' to be doing the right thing.

But I honestly think another reason is xenophobia from 'the west'. Qatari's do not look sound or dress like us. So it is easy to see them as 'other'. Similar to how Europeans used to exhibit 'Native African Villages' at fairs and so on.

breezy1985

You left out

4) It's a tiny little country the size of Cork with 1 city with a load of hastily built shoddy accommodation, no fans which is evident looking at the stadia and a very restrictive economy for the average travelling fan (if they can even find a hotel). All of this played out mid season on top of all the other footballing reasons they should never have been picked.

With all the sad attempts to play the race card and bash the "woke" people are deliberately ignoring how utterly sht Qatar are as hosts for non political reasons.

~Rebel~

There are far far far fewer reasons (any?) why it should be hosted here than why it shouldn't. That's why there's been such a big furure since literally the moment it was announced to a bemused/befuddled world 12 years ago.

It ticks absolutely none of the boxes one would expect from a world cup proposal - from infrastructure, to future viability of stadia, to accommodation, to scale, to climate (requiring a significant shift to the entire football calendar), to ability to cater to an influx of fans, to the huge expense for visiting fans, to the host shifting the goalposts on what was promised every five minutes... and then on top of that there's the fact that granting the world cup here has led directly to the mistreatment of hundreds of thousands of workers - in a country that could easily have afforded to offer proper care and support to their workers, but simply chose not to. It is the single greatest and most blatant show of the corruption and financial cynicism which (as you say) has been growing ever larger in the game. Those are just some of the direct reasons why there has been a furore, without even touching upon ideology, broader human rights etc.

And to be honest, the edgy cynical contrarianism feels just as performative as the supposed virtue signalling, if not more-so.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907162#Comment_119907162

Fair points I was just referencing the 'Human Rights' aspect.

I forgot the switch to the winter! That really has me messed up. This time of year I should be thinking GAA club championships and who will Dublin be trying out in the O'Byrne cup. It does not seem like the world cup, if you have to have to have the heat turned on while watching it

These two American fans seem to be enjoying it.

https://youtu.be/j8Xg7ZwjIEY

https://youtu.be/4QzXm7ftpbo

But is is a bit odd that I have to be looking online to see what the real craic is for the fans. The mainstream media like the BBC seem to be covering it as if they are hostages in Qatar or something!

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907218#Comment_119907218

Those 2 look like sht craic in fairness.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907210#Comment_119907210

I would not describe myself as an 'edgy contrainist. I never use the word 'Woke' I am not an American, and I am not someone who blindly follows them and apes what they say and do.

I like to think that I have a larger world view, research all sides and histories, geopolitical situations. Then make up my own mind. As a result I am not beholding to either political 'constructs' from America which has become fashionable on boards.ie. I don't go in illinformed and parrot lazy statements. I lay out my own opinions. And to be honest in years to come I think they will be taking the Mick out of media outlets such as the BBC and how they covered this WC.

I remember Alan Shearer was given a job of figuring out what apartheid was like, he was in SA in 2010. He was a roving reporter for the day. He asked a black interviewee 'So did you like apartheid?'

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907483#Comment_119907483

What's America got to do with any of this?

What do you think the are merits of this World Cup? What is your list of 'pros' as to why it should be celebrated, or even just escape without any comment? I presume you have something that extends beyond whataboutery?

As an aside - for that Shearer quote - interestingly, when I google it, there are two instances of it on the whole of the internet - two mentions of it anywhere, ever - and both are in posts from you. So we might need a bit of backup on that one...

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907498#Comment_119907498

The terms like 'woke' are used by posters when they see anyone critiquing the hypocrisy of the media coverage on Qatar. They say I suppose you think it is woke criticising Qatar and the symbolism etc.

That is an Americanism. And America has more to do with it as well because of their major influence in the middle East. In fact one of America's Middle Eastern Allies - Saudi (Similar to Qatar) could likely hold the 2030 WC. Also Qatar itself is a major non-NATO ally of the USA. Not only that Qatar depends to this relationship to protect them from invasion from other states in the middle east. it is all a big geopolitical web. And football is only a side note to the whole thing.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907533#Comment_119907533

ok... literally none of that relates to anything that was in the post you quoted (or indeed anything being discussed on this thread so far)... you've just plucked this 'america' thing out of thin air...

jacool

1. Bribery/Corruption -           This has only been highlighted because of the excellent investigation into FIFA, as shown on Netflix. Up to now, it was more implied and guessed at rather than being proven. The main reason why this was investigated was simply because the weakest bid won the 2022 bidding process, and people wanted to know why. How could a country which never breached the top 120 of the World’s seeded sides, playing at times with 7 players born in in Brazil, with only 1 stadium, and with summer temperatures heading towards 40 degrees get picked?
2. Workers’ Rights –                  Neither Brazil nor China imported workers and used the highly restrictive “kafala” system.  There was no mention of thousands of workers being killed during the building of the stadia, or rather the 3 deaths that the Qataris said happened. I have seen more than 3 coffins being taken off planes that flew in from Qatar during the construction phase. As a comparison, exactly 0 people have been killed in Ireland over the last 30 years in the fruit picking industry.
3. LGBT Rights –                       I can see here that Sharia Law has to be observed, even despite the inconsistencies in that law. As society progresses and becomes more inclusive and understanding, we still are faced with the elephant in the room that is “no gay men play football”. Everyone was taken with the openness and honesty around the relationships in the Women’s Euros but strangely this does not translate into the men’s game. So well done FIFA – let’s play the World Cup in a country that will double down on that logic! Let’s just say that its more likely that Saudi Arabia will beat Argentina than the Women’s World Cup being hosted in Qatar. Oh, hang on!

As for the rest, football shouldn’t be seen as doing the right thing – it should be doing the right thing.

Or perhaps you would like to drag us all back to the 1970s, when fans could throw bananas on the pitch, and anything could be chanted from the terraces.

The fact that the “taking the knee” pi**es people off is great. Football is not, and should not be, a right for the tribal narrow-minded neanderthal to turn up and show us his inadequacies. 

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907553#Comment_119907553

America is very integral to the boards.ie mindset I find particularly for the younger generation. They like the symbolism and gestures they like the phrases armbands, taking the knee, armbands and so on. That culture of armbands and meaningless symbolism has travelled to Western Europe.

But the same people don't seem to realise America's footprint is all over the middle east and in Qatar. For example, America is Qatar's largest Foreign Direct investor.

And if Qatar did not have America's protection they would have been invaded by a neighbouring country. Before America Qatar survived because it was British protectorate,. Basically without American political support there would be no Qatar - no country - therefore no WC. But the USA keep them there because of strategic importance in the Middle East. It' suits America's global interests. Issues such as 'Human Rights' in Qatar are really secondary ones/background noise at a political level.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907610#Comment_119907610

Feels like you're steadily drifting further and further away from the actual conversation...

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907610#Comment_119907610

"The younger generation"

Irish people have been sucking the aras off of the Americans going way back. The young people can't be blamed for the J.F.K. obsession. You say Qatar only survived because of America but also point out it was a British protectorate. Well we're Europeans then not protecting it ?

It seems the armbands and the like are only kept alive by the amount of people moaning about it. Its an armband just get over it.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907627#Comment_119907627

I am not doing so intentionally. The people criticise the Qatar WC under the guise of 'Human Rights' do so using the influence of American type empty symbolism gestures, like the BLM which do nothing. Yet on a political level Qatar is backed and protected to the hilt by America. That is a major contradiction.

So you have American type lazy protest Symbolism on one hand which is used to to admonish Qatar for it's moral failings 'As he West See it'. But on the other We have political America minding Qatar and keeping it going.

~Rebel~

(I also kinda doubt Boards.ie actually even has a younger generation... the only sensibility i've seen rising over the past few years is the slightly more contrarian, right leaning 'things were better in my day' side)

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907680#Comment_119907680

Ok - instead of getting fixated on what gestures you think people are using, how about you answer the merits of the complaints. Do you think Qatar being given the world cup was the correct decision? Do you think they can provide the open welcoming 'festival of football' that normally sees hundreds of thousands (or more) of fans come to the host nation? Do you think their stadium infrastructure - 8 stadiums all crammed together within a small location - match up to past and future world cup requirements? Do you think it's worthy of conversation that to build these 8 stadiums and other infrastructure from scratch that hundreds of thousands of migrant workers have been forced to live and work in extremely shït conditions, despite the country having more than enough money to have provided proper living and working conditions?

Should these issues be ignored, or do they deserve to be talked about?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907671#Comment_119907671

And the armband thing I would I would have more respect for if they kept tit going, when they were going to be given yellows for it. But Harry Kane backed down straight away.

There is a good debate on it here on Talksport on Qatar negative critique and how weak all the gestures seem to be -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ6-kG4Q74I

I watched these English fellas from the Spectator debate the question - Is Western Hypocrisy of the Qatar WC just Grandstanding?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZKCKRQhWgY

They seem a bit unsure on where to land on the argument.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907718#Comment_119907718

FIFA are crooks for making it an on field offense and that's plain to see for most people.

This clearly is nothing got to do with Qatar for you and is just the de jour vehicle for the chip on your shoulder.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907714#Comment_119907714

Qatar definitely unsuited I agree there, but it does not mean it can't be a good WC. I mean Italy is a lovely part of the World. But 1990 is held up as one of the worst competitions in history, awful football. Most in Ireland thought it was magic though. for obvious reasons

As for the working conditions that is for the people there to decide themselves, as far as I am concerned. Myself as Irish citizen I can do nothing about that. And as I said I never thought of how fruit was picked in Ireland by Bulgarian's shipped in until there was a danger of no fruit being picked. I never even realised it was Bulgarians that had to be flown and bused into Irish Fields during the summer.

So for me to jump around now and say oh the poor workers in Qatar that built those stadiums, it would only make me sound like an arsey hypocrite. Yeah, its not great for them, but the stadiums got built, given the amount of people involved you would expect a certain amount of casualties and so on. Plus working in that heat can't be good.

As for the living conditions it is cheap labour, that is how Qatar seems to work they have different nationalities serving different levels of Qatari society. Loads of Irish people stay for a short while teachers, I.T then they go home again and the new crop come in.

In that Talksport video I linked in my previous post they all said they could not find any migrant worker giving out, they all said they loved Qatar = taxi drivers - people serving in hotels etc

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907795#Comment_119907795

Not at all I just gather up the info. If you are going to protest, don't pretend and back down at the first test. Surely?

I watched the series on Qatar WC on Netflix as well. The irony is Blatter didn't want Qatar to win the bid. He wanted the USA - but he was out manoeuvred.

FA's could have boycotted it all sorts could have been done but nothing happened. In fact Beckham who was disgusted that the England bid failed due to corruption ended up as the Qatari WC Ambassador!

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907817#Comment_119907817

Given that even Blatter knew it was a step too far must tell you something and make other pause. Unfortunately having your players booked, possibility of been sent off if booked again or missing a knockout game if booked 3 times in the groups. The only way is if all teams stuck together and every playing came out with it on. I wonder what the board members are thinking now its on was it worth it

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907850#Comment_119907850

I was just about to say that, then put on second one in the second half - then the ref has to send all the players off - match abandoned. That would be a statement. Although it would be interesting how the participating countries media would react.

martingriff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119907875#Comment_119907875

Would need multiple countries to do it

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119908029#Comment_119908029

There were 9 countries involved. Definitely the Dutch as they created the armband and I think Belgium, England, Wales and all the rest were European IIRC.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119908211#Comment_119908211

They are in different groups though. All teams in a group would have to agree, otherwise teams would be disadvantaged

gormdubhgorm

Chat between two football journalists Guillem Balague and Grant Wahl - first impressions of Qatar

https://youtu.be/s_RuuVKAkFg

steinbock123

I watched the Saudi v Argentina game.

I thought it was very noticeable that there were NO female Saudi fans in the stadium (at least not apparent to me anyway) or outside, either before or after the match.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909711#Comment_119909711

Is that something that came as a surprise to you.

castletownman

I wonder would this criteria work to eliminate money talking in the future?

If you have to build any more than one new stadium from scratch, then you are disqualified from hosting the WC. Upgrading and modernising current stadiums is allowed- at least those countries with football infrastructure and tradition already in place will be legit candidates.

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911055#Comment_119911055

It might also mean that FIFA could be considered to be paying more than just lip service to making the WC more sustainable. Although I understand that Qatar 2022 came within a camels whisker of achieving carbon neutral status

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911111#Comment_119911111

Its only carbon neutral with a bunch of ***** attached.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911111#Comment_119911111

Their World Cup carbon neutral claim is literally only from when the first ball is kicked… so discounting all construction, and all related flights before the first match. It’s also not counting all the people forced to stay in neighbouring countries since Qatar can’t cater for them, and doesn’t count the flights people took to reach those places. And even with all that, they’re still not expected to actually be carbon neutral over these few weeks.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911111#Comment_119911111

Camel's whisker 😀 - well played with that one.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911145#Comment_119911145

Well of you factor in the fact that half of the 40,000 people "at the match" didn't actually go that helps with flights 🤣

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119909711#Comment_119909711

I was thinking as well. It is a lot like Ireland only about 50/60/70 years ago, there are a lot of similarities. You wouldn't see women at football or soccer matches. It just wasn't the done thing, and women had no interest as well.

When you think of those snugs in the pubs in Ireland, where it was a place women could drink. Not only that women would not be seen in the pub alone without a man. Women wouldn't be seen drinking pints either. Sure even in the 70's married women in Ireland had to give up work in the civil service etc.

Times and cultures eventually change, until a majority of women in xyz Islamic country want change, it won't happen otherwise. It is up for those countries to change themselves, rather than other countries telling them to change.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119911959#Comment_119911959

That's not really a great or accurate comparison in fairness though... what we had was a passive cultural oppression, where certain actions just "weren't the done thing". It was still bad obviously, but it's something that can change far more easily over time.

That's completely different to the active, legal, and religious oppression you're drawing the comparison with. Stuff that in Ireland back then would've had people shaking their heads with some bitchy backhanded comments will get someone beheaded in Iran or Saudi. Sure just look at what happened with the regime change in Afghanistan last year - it was already firmly established that women wanted freedom, and with the more loose and liberal (comparatively speaking) government, had firmly taken it. They went to sports events in big numbers, they drove cars, they went to the same universities as men to get the same education - and then the hardline Taliban government came back in and made all that illegal. And practically overnight we saw their women's national team not only disbanded, but having to flee the country to avoid criminalisation, and delete all their social media posts and records of them playing football to protect their families back home.

So no, people wanting or asking for change is not always enough, when the regime in charge has other ideas. This isn't a democracy... the regime is not there to represent the wishes of their people. It's there to enforce ideology. Sure just look at Iran right now for ten seconds to see that what women want is utterly irrelevant to those in charge.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912105#Comment_119912105

Don't forget that sadly the women in Iran are probably not the minority. Women were just as culpable as men for sending girls off to the laundries in Ireland and also controlling them once inside. I bet Iran is the same. Indoctrination is a far more powerful tool than whips and chains.

What's happening there is brilliant and real change has to come from within. The best we can do is offer support and example.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912151#Comment_119912151

Very true, especially when that indoctrination is backed up by stringent and uncompromising law. It's a very 'change resistant' situation and system. As you say, outside support is huge.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912105#Comment_119912105

But I think Iran will change eventually and it will thier people that do it not outside forces. Not like Having a western controlled puppet like the Shah of Iran put in place by coup supported by the CIA and British Secret Service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

The 1953 Iran coup that overthrew democracy in Iran lasted until the 70's and that only ended in tears. When the puppet Shah fell. Foreign superpower meddling in the middle east never ends well.

I doubt foreign/western encouraged change/putting a puppet in will happen in Qatar as they are one of the more 'open' middle eastern countries - despite the sharia law backbone. And the Qatari people are kept 'sweet' by the Qatari Royal family, so it is unlikely cultures are going to change anytime soon.

The American government are very happy to be allies to Qatar - it is a mutual beneficial relationship.Until that changes I cannot see 'outside forces' forcing Qatar to change - by invasion/regime change. That is just the geopolitical reality of it. The current situation suits Qatar and it suits America. Simple as that.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912199#Comment_119912199

There's a fairly huge range of support opportunities that can happen short of 'putting a puppet in' in fairness. (One of those things potentially being a simple edict of; "you're not allowed to host a world cup or major international sporting event until your citizens are legally equal")

The political angles are a huge part of the problem for sure - countries happy to engage in trade while turning a blind eye - but again i'm pointing out your Irish comparison is just not at all accurate. It's just a completely completely different problem that women in Iran, Afghanistan etc face..

If they're left to force change entirely by themselves to achieve even the most basic level of equality, without any outside support, the reality is that it will involve an awful lot more bloodshed and death before it ever has any chance of happening.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912247#Comment_119912247

I am not saying it is exactly the same to Ireland. But there are similarities, I believe. The reality is Qatar is a different culture, it is their culture, as long as the people of Qatar are happy with it will continue.

Phrases such as 'regime' to describe Qatar, ring hollow when the Qatari people have a fantastic way of life. And the likes of Britain and the USA overthrew democracy in places like Iran when suited and installed a puppet - the Shah. Look at the trouble it has caused now after the Shah.

So you can understand my cynicism at the hypocrisy of many of these Western protests about Qatar. To me they seem to be framed on the basis of naivety and lack of knowledge of the history of the middle east. Plus lack of awareness about many years of Western interference in that area. Qatar was a British protectorate until 1971, was there much 'Western Critique' of Qatar then?

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912293#Comment_119912293

The comparison you made was between Saudi and Ireland. You drew the comparison between someone saying there were no Saudi women there supporting their team, and Ireland in the 70s. That comparison is a total nonsense.

And the "as long as the people of X are happy with it, it will continue" is very naive. A more accurate statement would be "as long as the RULING people of X are happy with it, it will continue".

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912293#Comment_119912293

"The Qatari people have a fantastic way of life"

As long as they are straight men. We don't know how the rest feel as they are not allowed to talk.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912327#Comment_119912327

Not true, a populace will rise up, and call for change eventually if they want it.

However, the crime rate in Qatar is one of the lowest in the world. More hope of being mugged in O'Connell Street, than Doha.

Qatar has got the highest GDP per capita in the world. There is no income tax in Qatar. Do you think the Qatari's will want their system of governance to change seriously?

And then the country is protected by USA on top of all this. It couldn't be better for the Qatari people.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912350#Comment_119912350

You seem to have no appreciation for just how much bloodshed would be required to have any chance of internal change in the likes of Saudi compared to the far simpler cultural shift in Ireland (which, again, is the comparison you made). Again, the death sentences being handed out right now in Iran are a decent sign of that. Qatar might not be as bad as each of those, but it's still an awful lot more difficult - and nigh on impossible for minority groups - than you seem to appreciate.

jacool

Considering how long it took "equal" rights to creep into Ireland, but also recognising that "tut-tutting" and "curtain twitching" are less final or feared than amputations, stonings and murders, I don't see any way that the current Qatari regime ends any time soon.

If the desire to host was driven by ego alone, then it's been a massive success - if it was based on showing Qatar as a possible holiday destination, or stayover location, then it's been an abysmal failure.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912391#Comment_119912391

Well the problems in Iran were caused by Western Interference - if there was never a Western Supported coup overthrowing a democratically elected leader in 1953- Iran might still be a democracy South Africa had apartheid and the people did not want it and eventually overthrew the system.

At least Qatar have had more chance to have their own governance what the vast majority of their citizens want. And Qatar seem to be doing very well for themselves thriving in the business world, a world cup, European Football clubs and so on.

It is what the people are used to. It is what they want, not the 'Western Protestor's' whose principles are weak ones when it comes to the crunch. There are a strategic ally to Britain and the USA so the status quo will remain - despite the civic minded western voices it is only platitudes and pretence etc

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912454#Comment_119912454

... I'm not talking about Iran back in 1953, I'm talking about the women in Iran being killed right now for protesting... or do you really think the young woman looking for the most basic levels of freedom there don't deserve to be respected on their own terms?

gormdubhgorm

Qatari has its own system of elected governance since the 1990's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAisD6hu7Pk

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/qatar-embracing-democracy/

Women can also vote and run as candidates by the way. You just have to be a Qatari Citizen over 18 to vote.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119912470#Comment_119912470

I do of course but the West is to blame for the chain of events that that have led to the current situation in Iran. Qatar seems like a grand place to live. Otherwise lots of Western people/Irish people would not go over there to work for a few years or even stay longer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058176435/now-yere-talking-to-a-man-living-in-qatar