F1 2023 thread

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328855#Comment_120328855

this made me laugh (I agree with you by the way), "It doesn't make me think he's a good driver. He's experienced. He's in the top 60 most experienced f1 drivers of all time."

that list on wiki?

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329396#Comment_120329396

That's a bit of an exaggeration. He didn't just come close to Sirotkin, he beat him, and he's improved a lot since then. A teammate he did come close to was Felipe Massa, a guy who could have been a world champion. Massa was of course past his best at the time, but Lance was a rookie so it balances out. The only team mates he's ever been clearly behind were a 4 time world champion and Sergio Perez, a multiple race winner and a driver who's beaten anyone he's ever sat alongside other than Verstappen (who he's gotten closer to than any other driver since Max was a teenager) and Jenson Button (and even that was reasonably close considering it was a time when Button was in his peak and Perez was a near rookie coming into a new team)

And yes, he's had a lot of privilege and training. Without that he wouldn't be the driver he is today. But that doesn't change the fact that, with all that training and experience, he is now a very solid driver and has been for the past few years.

muckwarrior

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329507#Comment_120329507

I think you're the one exaggerating.

Yes, technically he beat the rookie Sirotkin, but they were very evenly matched https://www.redbull.com/au-en/f1-team-mate-battles

Massa was miles faster than him, but due to bad luck this wasn't reflected in the points. e.g. Massa was on course for a win in Azerbaijan only for a mechanical, which meant Stroll got his first podium. Bear in mind, this was Massa's last season, i.e. he wasn't deemed good enough for another season in F1.

Perez was on the same level as Hulk. Ocon was more than a match for him.

Vettel was beaten by Ricciardo and LeCelrc, so hardly on the level he once was.

Alonso is probably at least 2 or 3 years past his prime, but I'd still put all my money on him beating Stroll this year.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329467#Comment_120329467

https://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiques/pilote/gp/nombre.aspx

Got it here. I haven’t heard of the site before so don't know its reputation. Check not out for yourself.

If you click about through the stats, it's a really interesting site. Assuming they're accurate, it's class

Schorpio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329507#Comment_120329507

Yep, he is a solid driver. No question. This year will really see what he's made of.

I guess for a lot of people, it is the sheer vastness of the spend though. Most pay drivers just buy their seats. The Stroll's seem to buy teams. $80 million just to get to F1 + whatever the payment to Williams was for the first few years + a reported £90 million for Racing Point (which had £15 million in debt) and another £212 million for Aston Martin.

(I know the Racing Point and Aston take-overs were investment funds which Stroll heads, but still).

That is a lot. Even by F1 pay driver standards. It's insane.

Yes, he is a very solid driver at the end of it all. But I understand why, for some people, the asterisk keeps popping up next to his results.

eviltimeban

When you're worth $3bn, buying an F1 team for your son is probably the equivalent of a regular parent buying a car for one of their children!

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329821#Comment_120329821

that site is amazing... they have a stat on everything you can think of... you're right, is it verifiable? but its a lot of fun....Stroll is more experienced than Damon Hill... 😂

and what about this:

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330046#Comment_120330046

I think Stroll has probably already made a decent return on his investment. It was clever to buy a relatively cheap F1 team and then get into Aston Martin and tie the two together.

Just look at the stock jump after practice on Friday. Smart business.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330108#Comment_120330108

Don't forget the number of races now is way higher than earlier periods. Experience is going to be all current racers relatively soon. Same for win stats (except percentage, obvs)

Brief_Lives

I cracked that code...

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330046#Comment_120330046

The guy spent €250 million on a yacht a few years ago. The money he’s put into this team is not a lot for him and it looks like he might even get a return on his investment now.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Heads have already rolled at Ferrari..

https://twitter.com/autosport/status/1633860320786808832?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336222#Comment_120336222

This is all so very Ferrari, they will lose Leclerc at this rate.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336231#Comment_120336231

And they'd deserve it too.

Speaking of losing drivers, Hamilton clearly quite upset with Merc. I made a post about it a few days ago, but I don't see a decent landing spot for him if he does lead, not unless Ferrari get their sh1t together.

https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1633788470383505408

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336316#Comment_120336316

Yeah some heavy words in there form Lewis.

He may well be on the ball with what he says, I do not doubt that. Just doing it in the budget cap now is not easy, or even possible in some aspects. That really was Mercs superpower, if you give smart people loads of money to find performance then it isn't hard for the driver to just give a wish list of things.

Plus, he isn't a designer or an engineer. If Merc had numbers that pointed towards something (and the previous years its worked for them), then they will go towards that. Simply saying the car lacks grip isn't going to give them a clear brief.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336376#Comment_120336376

I would imagine that his feedback would be a little more specific than that though..

This is from an interview with a former RBR Head of Aerodynamics:

• RBR's big secret? Listening to the driver. An F1 car is orders of magnitudes of variables. Aerodynamics you have yaw, pitch etc., engines have (many), chassis has (many). And so the cars have 'unreal' numbers of objective sensors. But they won't tell you the symptoms, like 'entry understeer'. 'Drivers are the sensors engineers forget'. They can pick out the things that matter.

I agree with the rest of what you're saying. I think Merc's biggest problem is that they're just not used to not throwing money at the problem. That, and they've lost a lot of talent to other teams.

(Link to the quote: https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/eys9aw/peter_prodromou_interview_notes/ )

LIGHTNING

The two Merc drivers coming out really should help their team by keeping there head down and driving. It helps nobody them coming out with all the negative comments. Everybody knows that Merc isn't the best now, coming out slating the team helps nobody.

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331158#Comment_120331158

They also timed it beautifully with the media embargo on the Valkyrie lifting the day after the race. Straight after Alonso's result you had videos hitting the internet from Top Gear, Hagerty etc singing the praises of their new hypercar while driving it around the same circuit Fernando just raced on. That'll be a big halo effect for the brand.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336376#Comment_120336376

Tbf Drivers are definitely not to be ignored. I think was the 2019 season Grosjean kept telling Haas the car was getting worse each race with the "updates" they were doing despite the "numbers/simulations" getting better.

They eventually gave him the original Australian spec of the car and he promptly outqualified Magnussen in every race the two versions ran together.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336222#Comment_120336222

BBC were talking about this at the weekend. Ferrari usually promote from within and that's a good because they bring institutional knowledge and continuity, but it also makes it difficult to make big changes and fire friends. But a new leader can take a fresh look and doesn't have loyalty to anyone. So they can do a clean sweep.

This might be a fresh start, or could be more of the same from Ferrari. Time will tell.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120336454#Comment_120336454

The testing limitations are probably a killer for them as well, only 3 days this year didnt give them much to work off.

flazio

Mercedes-Benz have hit back at the reports of Hamilton's discontent.

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1633918260230881280?t=LzaPneNmBn-DUIoPUhLxcg&s=19

McFly85

Well, he still hadn’t signed an extension, but it’s difficult to see him going anywhere else.

Ferrari would be the only other team in the frame but both of their drivers are contracted until the end of 2024 and it’s not currently significantly faster than the Mercedes anyway.

So I would imagine he will stay and hope Merc get their shít together for one last title run. But considering their seemingly fundamental design problems that seems like a tall order.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325924#Comment_120325924

The Lego Ferrari was it's nickname.

What a great season that was do Formula 1 had just gotten good again with 8 different winners in the first 8 races of that season and then everything changed in 2013 and 2014 and the dull 8 years of Mercedes dominance began.

Thankfully we have Red Bull to thank for it ending because I do not think Ferrari would have stopped it had Red Bull not been in the sport. Mercedes probably would still dominate and Lewis would be a 10 time WDC how boring.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339101#Comment_120339101

How many do you think Max will win? I don't know about 10 but we could be in the beinning of a very boring era right now!

I believe he's currently in year 3 of a 5 in a row. Hopefully Red Bull and Ford aren't the ones who nail the 2026 regulations!!

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

It's hard not to see Max having 5 WDC's by the time the regs change. Even if (and it's a big if)) another constructor can match RBR for pace, you'd have to fancy Max over anyone right now, and he hasn't even hit his peak yet.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120338877#Comment_120338877

I guess it will also depend on what Mercedes want to offer for the length of a contract, vs what Lewis will want himself. A team like Mercedes will know he is probably past his best, so to offer him a longer term and then him to retire etc would mean they are back to square 1 in the future. It is basically what happened at Alpine with Alonso, he wanted a longer term and they weren't budging. So off he went.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341547#Comment_120341547

They still have ties with Ocon if they saw him as good enough. His contract ends next year I think. After that, who would they want? They were pretty Conservative getting Russell into the car. Do they have many young drivers they might take a punt on or would they buy in an established driver?

Assuming Hamilton stays for at least 1 more year

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341638#Comment_120341638

I guess they could court Norris if there is an exit clause in his McLaren contract for performance etc. There was a mention on The Race podcast of them courting Leclerc who might not see any potential at Ferrari and jump ship.

I am not sure Russell is the defacto leadership quality just yet, and they also have Schumacher on their roster now but that is a massive gamble.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342039#Comment_120342039

I doubt it's Schumacher. I'd imagine he's there because he's an experienced substitute if needs be. But he also has first hand knowledge of the Ferrari power unit and some Knowledge of the ferrari car from his testing role. A bit like Kvyat when he moved from TR to Ferrari for a year as reserve driver.

Fair play, they could target Leclerc or Norris. They would be great options. I'd give Russell some time to see how good he is. He finished behind Hamilton last week, but he was faster at the start of the race and Mercedes wouldn't use team orders. Hamilton finished well ahead which suggests Hamilton had much better race management. But I wouldn't write Russell off.