F1 2023 thread

El_Duderino 09

It's pretty unseemly. Massa needs to move on. He must be hard up for money if he would go down this route.

But we don't even know if it's true or not so I'll reserve any Massa bashing for if it actually happens. Could be a totally made up story plug some of the 4 week gap.

recyclebin

Quite ironic when you look back on it. Alonso's win in Singapore helped Hamilton win the championship a year after they fell out with each other at McLaren.

mickdw

To be fair, he has a 100 percent valid point when learning of the new evidence from Bernie that they knew at the time of the cheating and knowingly acted in a manner that defied the rules in order to protect the sport. This action in the end awarding the championship to the wrong man.

He would appear to have no chance of getting the championship standings changed but I think he would have a solid case against FOM and the FIA for 100s of millions in compensation if it's still possible to take such a case, this far removed.

Bernie wouldn't mind costing the current business owners a few hundred million either I'd imagine.

Frank Bullitt

Such an odd thing for Massa to do.

I think he is mainly just after some sort of compensation though, no chance in hell the results will be changed. Could you imagine the carnage?

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120441806#Comment_120441806

Yeah if you actually read the details of the new information that has come to light you can see why he'd be mad not to be looking at legal avenues. The FIA knew about the cheating and if they'd acted on it in the way they should have then he would have been the undisputed rightful champion, but they chose to cover it up instead. Massa and Ferrari had no opportunity to appeal at the time because they weren't even aware of it.

There's not a hope of it being overturned of course but he'd certainly be well within his rights to seek compensation for loss of earnings having been knowingly robbed of a championship that could have completely changed his career trajectory.

Andrew76

I was gutted for Massa losing the title in the last few corners of the season that year but if the FIA had of taken action at the time then isn’t it more likely they would have just excluded Renault and their drivers from both championships? Ferrari did more damage to his title hopes with the shambolic fuel hose incident that race. Will be interesting to see how far this goes but I’d be surprised if anything comes of it.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120442418#Comment_120442418

Exactly this. There isn’t a hope in hell that the entire race would have been declared null and void because of the actions of one team.

Also, I love how people are taking Bernie Ecclestone on his word here. The man is a perennial bullsh*tter and it’s funny that he can throw a dead man under the bus just so he can get a bit of attention.

Ghost Train

Reading about it, even if the cheating was known about earlier, I don't think they have ever cancelled points for a race in this way before. They would likely just disqualify Renault as they did but the Singapore race results, minus Renault, would still stand

Burkie1203

Rokit suing Williams for $150m

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120444909#Comment_120444909

for what?

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120445604#Comment_120445604

Breach of contract, reputation damage

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120445604#Comment_120445604

They are saying Williams management - Claire Williams promised them a competitive car and they had anything but And their argument is that Williams made these claims knowing that they didn't have enough funds to compete fully and properly.

Surely their own due diligence would have to be the deciding factor in entering these deals and not the advertising bluster of a struggling team?

Jordan 199

It was on this date 20 years ago that Jordan won their last Grand Prix. That 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix was a crazy race.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120446271#Comment_120446271

Bring back v10s did a great episode on that race:

https://podcastaddict.com/episode/146811125

(if you're not already listening to this podcast, you should. It's excellent)

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120446038#Comment_120446038

Yeah it sounds silly. Normally the first thing that would spring to mind is 'define competitive'. But whatever your definition of competitive, that Williams ain't it.

2019 with Russell and Kubica, they just fell further and further off other 18 cars all race. They often got lapped more times than the rest of the field.

But Rokit can fcuk off. This sounds like corporate compo culture. You pays your money you takes your chance. If they overpaid, that's surely their problem. I doubt there was much of a bidding war to be Williams title sponsor. Although, I do remember people speculating that Kubica in the car would mean they'd get loads of additional sponsorship. Maybe they fleeced Rokit. Who knows?

flazio

Happy birthday Oscar Piastri.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CqsQqMTooLm/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

flazio

Re:Williams V Rokit, who's liable if Rokit wins? Current owners Dorlinton or Frank's estate?

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120446038#Comment_120446038

Rokit are morons if they think they can somehow make an F1 team 100% guarantee results. No team can do that.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448507#Comment_120448507

Ya, the only way that would work would be performance related bonuses and that's not the case here.

Gremlinertia

Between Rokit and Massa we'll be entertained until the racing begins again!

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448493#Comment_120448493

I'd imagine buying a company brings all these associated risks with it.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448555#Comment_120448555

I suspect that's the whole point. Headlines for F1 and even an old driver and sponsor, during what would otherwise be a very difficult 4 weeks to get any coverage at all...

bennyx_o

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451195#Comment_120451195

So F1 asked Massa to look into taking legal action against them and asked Rokit to sue Williams for breach of contract to keep F1 in the news because they didn't replace the Chinese GP?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452463#Comment_120452463

You can make an argument for that if you want but its not what I said.

Paper never refused ink. I'll believe in those lawsuits when I see them, not when I see an article suggesting they could happen.

The journalist have their targets for articles for the year. I'd imagine they are under pressure to get articles and clicks during a 4 week break. They won't be held accountable if it turns out the stories are based on nothing more than pub-talk. You can't unclick on the article.

bennyx_o

You may not have said it directly, but what when you begin a reply to this post;

"Between Rokit and Massa we'll be entertained until the racing begins again!"

with

"I suspect that's the whole point' it's hard to see what else you were trying to say

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452786#Comment_120452786

Yeah, well be entertained with stories until the racing begins again. The stories don't have to be true to be entertaining. I'd have thought that's obvious if you pay any attention to F1 journalism over the years.

How did you jump to the conclusion that F1 is conspiring with Massa and Rokit to make the stories happen? Journalists just need to report the stories. Nobody needs the stories to be true in the long term, they just need to entertain in the short term.

PsychoPete

Super Formula is back on YouTube this weekend if anyone is missing some racing. There's a few familiar faces Liam Lawson, Kamui Kobayashi and Giuliano Alesi.

LIGHTNING

Re Massa if they have to roll back that result then so be it. If they knowingly covered stuff up then why not? Just because its a while ago doesn't change the fact.

mickdw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453946#Comment_120453946

It is an odd admission from Bernie. More to cause trouble than anything else I'm sure. If the rule books did state that the race should be deleted, Massa surely has a case. However as someone here said, the most likely scenario I would have thought would be that the cheating parties be excluded from the results.

Must have a look to see if sporting regs from 08 are up online.

bennyx_o

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120453567#Comment_120453567

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120448555#Comment_120448555

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120451195#Comment_120451195

I'm not jumping to any conclusions. Here's the original post and your reply and to it certainly seems you're suggesting F1 orchestrated the headlines to keep the F1 name in the headlines, unless you mean the media outlets are trying to keep F1 in the headlines to bump up their numbers which would make more sense