Ireland the land of taxes and endless "fees"

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119933623#Comment_119933623

You going to have to accept at some stage some kind of living wage. Those that can work will and have deductions. Some mothers want to look after their own children and that will save the state money in the long run. Automation is happening faster and faster. When 1 AI can look after a call centre of 700 foe example.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119932799#Comment_119932799

One of the problems with the current system is that bottles are not collected separately from paper and cardboard. This will help with this issue.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119933623#Comment_119933623

40k is a pittance. You can't just increase the min wage to 40k. That's not just going to pour petrol on the inflation fire, more like pouring a compressed mix of oxygen and petrol and supercharging it. You are familiar with hyper inflation?

The solution is reduction to the welfare state to make a 40k job less of a pittance. I will again call on the example of the member of my extended family I referred to earlier. 40 year old, single mother of 2 kids with special needs. Husband in jail for sexual abuse. She is a recipient of carers allowance for the two kids as they have very high care requirements. She recieves HAP, fuel allowance, medical card etc. She wants to go back to work as she doesnt want to be on welfare. I worked it out for her that she'd need to bring in early to mid 40's in a job just to break even. It doesnt pay to work in this country, and thats the problem. Increasing the minimum wage devalues everyone earning from 25-40k and would result in job losses. Cutting welfare would make it more worth while for people to go back to work. (or work at all)

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934190#Comment_119934190

Sorry Blanch, this is not a great idea. It might work in a country/ system where local bin/ recycling collections are free. We pay Panda approx €85 every 3 months for this service. Are they going to reduce their fees?? Very unlikely. So we'll continue to pay Panda for bin collections whilst also obliged to pay a new tax on items that we currently recycle through Panda bins. Except now, we'll have to separate these further and drive to town to get this tax back. What numpty thought this was a good idea. If the target is reduce littering and increase recycling, then better enforcement and public information campaigns to use the existing facilities would be more effective. Many Irish people are dirty and leave their rubbish behind on beaches and in parks etc. Cracking down on this antisocial practice with boots on the ground is the answer, not some refund scheme.

downtheroad

Just heard Pearse Doherty on Newstalk arguing against about bankers bonuses and somehow the conversation moved to USC, with Pat Kenny explaining how progressive a tax it is.

Pearse, potentially the next Minister for Finance, replied with "everytime a consumer buys a carton of milk they pay VAT".

It's worrying that a man in his position doesn't know that VAT on milk (and most foodstuffs) is 0%, and therefore a consumer pays no tax on this transaction.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934458#Comment_119934458

If the target is reduce littering and increase recycling, then better enforcement and public information campaigns to use the existing facilities would be more effective.

Except all evidence from other countries that have implemented such a policy suggest this is not true at all.

People might prefer it, but its not going to be more effective.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934337#Comment_119934337

So your solution would be to leave your friend who is trying to look after two special needs children with insufficient resources to do so?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934458#Comment_119934458

The current system is not working,

https://www.buzz.ie/news/irish-news/plastic-packaging-waste-recycle-epa-27970967

"Right now, the majority of Ireland's plastic packaging waste is being incinerated. Part of the reason for this is businesses and households not separating waste correctly."

"For the past year, all clean, dry plastics can go into the recycling bin however a recent survey from Repak found that 27 per cent of people still believe that only rigid plastics can be recycled in Ireland."

Plastic bottle are rarely clean and dry when they go into the green bins.

If a system isn't working, you change it.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934491#Comment_119934491

Not in the least surprised that Pearse "the Accountant" Doherty doesn't have a clue about tax.

Geuze

It is indeed crazy that a worker earning 38k faces a 48.5% marginal direct tax rate.

The solution to this is to have more bands and rates.

No worker should face a MTR above 50%.

The top MTR should not start until at least double median earnings, say 100k.

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934711#Comment_119934711

Absolutely agree.

There should be a principle of maximum total tax take from an individual, so that if the government wants to introduce a new tax, they have to reduce another tax elsewhere. Or give you a rebate when it goes over 40% in total tax take for instance.

It's fundamentally not right that the government could earn more money from your work and business than yourself the person that does the work.

Of course they have no problem housing workshy people for life on the backs of hardworking taxpayers.

kabakuyu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119933593#Comment_119933593

He was joking, no need to have an hysterical meltdown.😉

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935720#Comment_119935720

To make enough to be over 40% total tax take you need to be making at least €125,000 a year. That's as a single person with no deductions which means no one is actually paying that rate on that income. That's in the top 5% of incomes in this country, why do you feel they need a tax break? How would that benefit the country?

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935855#Comment_119935855

I think he is talking about the portion of your wage that you pay over 48.5% of every euro you earn after the higher rate of tax kicks in. Why should it benefit the country if the person working is already contributing a significant amount of tax on their labor, it should benefit the person who is breaking their b0ll0x working.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934611#Comment_119934611

Family member, and no. I would support a tapering of income support as income rose. As it stands, she can only work a certain number of hours each week and regardless of whether she received 1 euro or 100 euro per hour is immaterial. And she's a family member not merely a friend - but I'm writing from an unbiased perception.

Take an example where she took a job at Aldi. Employees there start on 25hr contracts. This would 100% remove all supports she receives currently because she is 5 hours over the allowed threshold. A better system would reduce the income support by a tapered amount for additional hours worked.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935855#Comment_119935855

Yes I've been making that point ad nauseum but some folks seem incapable of grasping. I've earned 80-100k each year in the last 3 years and my highest tax rate was 32% (including all PRSI, PAYE, USC etc).

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935880#Comment_119935880

That's how they do it in Scandinavian countries. Never understood why they don't adopt it here.

ELM327

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935895#Comment_119935895

Agreed. It really penalizes those who want to work but - understandably - don't want to shoot themselves in the pocket by doing so. Make work pay.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935877#Comment_119935877

He said he wants a rebate for anyone who pays over 40% on total income.

Oh, and I see after 2 days arguing with me about how much PS sector wages push up the average income compared to New Zealand, that now that I did the maths for you that you have become strangely quiet on the matter. I take it you now accept you were wrong and you have no evidence to support the claim?

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935920#Comment_119935920

First of all I was pushing the point with regards to public sector pay pushing up median pay in Ireland and I think you started an argument with a different poster with regards to New Zealand and I wasn't wrong. I showed you a 5% differential of public sector pay and private sector pay in New Zealand from two different sites (that you refused to accept) and 20% differential in Ireland from the CSO. I think we were arguing over different things go back and have a look for the poster who you brought up New Zealand with.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935892#Comment_119935892

I can only assume a lot of these fellas are too young to have actually paid any tax. Except for the one who lives in a fantastic low-tax utopia in Asia that he's not allowed to name for security reasons.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935932#Comment_119935932

I repeatedly told you that you were arguing with me over something I never said and were answering questions that I never asked. I gave you multiple chances to stop responding but you didn't. If you couldn't be bothered read what I actually wrote instead of what you think I wrote that's on you but you sure did waste an awful lot of everybody's time to get there.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935945#Comment_119935945

Back at you, you started with New Zealand stats when I was arguing about median wage being brought up the public sector pay differential so both of us were at it. So maybe we should just leave it there with that regards.

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935959#Comment_119935959

So once again, you didn't read my post or the post I was responding to and when I repeatedly told you what I was debating, which I did again only yesterday, you didn't read that either. And yet in your mind, we're both to blame? Makes sense I guess...

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119936010#Comment_119936010

You originally were arguing with a different poster and then told me as well to explain the differential with Ireland and new Zealand when I was arguing something completely different. look is there any point going on with it. You didn't read my post or ignored them about why are we using new Zealand or with out comparing new Zealand so yeah we are both to blame. That's the last post I will be responding to you about it. So we are both to blame

sameoldname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119936029#Comment_119936029

I'm going to read your post the way you read mine and just assume you want to keep debating.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935880#Comment_119935880

Ok, don't think that was particularly clear from your original post but little enough to disagree with there.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935855#Comment_119935855

I am referring to the marginal direct tax rate, which is 48.5% after 36,800.

The vast majority of people agree that this is too high for workers on 38k.

It is not too high for workers on 100k+.

Ireland is very unusual, in that such high MTRs start at such a low entry point.

See the chart below, a little bit out of date.

It's even worse in 2022.

The 48.5% MTR starts at 36,800, while average earnings are 50k!!!

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935892#Comment_119935892

The folks harping on about the 40% income tax rate kicking in at €36,800 (which is rising to €40,000 from January 1st) are completely ignoring the €17,000 of tax free income thanks to our tax credits (increasing to €17,750 from January 1st).

Geuze

I am not ignoring it.

I fully accept that the effective rates are well below the marginal rates, thanks to tax credits.

But workers do focus on the MTR.

Workers consider the MTR when deciding on overtime / progression / promotion / whether a couple should have 1 or 2 jobs.

The MTR is important, it is significant, it does affect the labour supply.

Most people don't know their effective tax rate, as that requires calculations.

Many people do know their MTR, and they do consider it.

For these reasons, I feel 48.5% on 36,800 is way too high.