New TB Testing Rules - Effective from 1st February 2023

patsy_mccabe

gov.ie - Bovine TB (www.gov.ie)

Initially, the requirements are that:

• Cows of all ages, and males over the age of 36 months that are moving farm to

farm or through a mart must be TB tested in the last six months and

• They must also be moving from a herd that has been tested in the last six months.

• If they do not fulfil both these requirements, they must then be tested, either

within the 30 days prior to movement or within 30 days after movement into the new herd.

Silverdream

More regulation added to an already not fit for purpose system.

alps

Initially????

And that "and" is a sick dirty inclusion..

Anto_Meath

I can get the logic in that an animal must be within 6 months of test when its been sold in the mart, I remember years ago it was 60 days and it wasn't until my dad would send me into the office to pick up the card that you would know how close they were to been out of test.

But I don't know why the destination farm has to be within 6 months of test, its not like the TB test works as a vaccine and gives cattle a period of protection from TB.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934517#Comment_119934517

I could be wrong but I don't read the OP as the destination farm has to be within the 6 months too...

Is it not just that the animals being sold have to be within the six months and the herd they are coming from in its entirety has to be within the 6 months too

As you say having the destination herd requirement wouldn't seem to make much sense at first glance.....beyond requiring a hell of a lot more testing...

I'd have two further questions reading it

1) Who is paying for the extra testing?....

2) What does cows of all ages mean?....seeing as there is no specific mention of heifers does the "of all ages" bit cover heifers too....even though they ain't cows...

As an additional less important query......I would love to know the level of education of the people that write these that they can't seem to issue a concise statement that covers all the bases and leaves you with a minimum of clarification required after reading...

Limestone Cowboy

Is there enough vets in the country to double up on the herd testing aswell. I had to wait 6 weeks for my last test in June, they were up the walls. I'm in a high incidence area anyway so basically have to test twice a year at a minimum.

Lime Tree Farm

The thin end of the wedge. Next thing I can see this coming down the tracks is 6 month TB testing for all becoming compulsory.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058273714/new-tb-testing-rules-effective-from-1st-february-2023

Reading it the second time, it's correct...just very badly written..(or very badly read🤭)

If the whole herd of the seller is not with 6 months of a test, then that group of animals must be tested either within 30 days of sale or 30 days of purchase..

A heifer is a cow..once calved.

Anto_Meath

@amacca sorry I read it wrong.

So my understanding now is to sell a cow (or animal over 36 months) the whole herd has to be within 6 months of test, or you can test the animal to be sold and sell it within 30 days. This is really going to effect the cull cow trade in the mart, lads will just factory the cows now instead of the hassle of testing them to bring them to the mart. Plus the lads buy them wouldn't want the hassle of testing them either. Dealers wouldn't be able to buy these cull cows either as they will need to test them before the can sell them on if they aren't within 30 days of test.

I can see scenarios where this could become really complicated.

To answer your question, the farmer is going to pay for all this extra testing, not that it will make a blind bit of difference to the number of reactors or improve the situation one bit. My vets are under enough pressure and busy enough without all this extra work. They have 2 vets dedicated to small animal care as it is at the minute, they may dedicate one to full time testing now too.

I assume like the stocking units once a heifer has a calf she is classified as a cow even if she is only 15 /16 months. This will put lads of calving springing heifers and selling them then.

alps

Dealers won't have to test these cows. Any cow bought for fattening and slaughter won't have to be tested.

Mooooo

Twud be more within there remit to deal with outbreaks properly where they occur. Only half depopulating some places when all stock should go of they were taking anymore at all, no sign of em dealing with wildlife sources either

Albert Johnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934850#Comment_119934850

Most lads I know that feed volumes of cows are operating under feedlot conditions meaning the cows can only be moved directly to slaughter. They'll hardly bother testing under the new rules as the resulting restriction penalty won't make any difference to them. If you're handling cull cows on a regular basis then Tb reactors are always going to be an issue.

@Anto_Meath The cynic in me believes that the meat factories are delighted with these measures as they'll allow them to regain the cow kill they've lost of late. Most farmers locally are showing there culls in the marts in recent year's because the trade is booming and you know what you're getting straight away without any nasty surprises on the kill sheet. As you've said when these rules are enacted it will be more straightforward to send them direct to the factory and therefore put the ball back in there court. As another poster has mentioned this is only the thin end of the wedge and will soon be enacted across all cattle. More effort and expense for the primary producer and another stick to beat us with, it would make you sick the whole lot of it tbh.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119934967#Comment_119934967

Seemed to put in a good effort with wildlife around these parts but cannot understand the logic of removing wildlife and not testing it..

There is no systematic approach to wildlife like there is to livestock.

Anto_Meath

@Albert Johnson I would be of a similar opinion to yourself, from seeing what was buying cull cows locally it was Northern exporters or smaller meat processor who seem to have unique contracts that allow them give more in the mart for good heavy cows than the bigger factories would ever give.

I know what you are saying about the feed lot for the cull cows buyers. 1 has rented a farm beside me and it is a pain, I am testing regular and I have have had 2 reactors on tests in the last 3 years, the both came up clear in the factory.

The whole testing thing is a massive pain and inconvenience, because of my neighbor and regular testing I don't get too stressed out over it but my father in law gets very worked up the week he is testing, I do actually feel sorry for him.

I would guess in 12 /24 months time or so they will be looking to test all cattle in a similar manor, they appear to want to limit cattle moving so from farm to farm. Again I would be of the opinion that it would suit factories better if there was no mart to sell cattle in.

Albert Johnson

Almost all the better type culls locally are either bought by wholesalers, men with contracts to supply said wholesalers/smaller independent processors or northen customers. The main processor's and those feeding cattle for them can't compete for the better cows and mop up the lower quality culls. It took years for lads to realise that a thriving and transparent live trade was a better option than a lucky dip kill sheet where every animal and every seller received a different price. I find it hard to believe that the measures outlined in the new testing proposals are more than an a happy accident on the processor's behalf.

I'm sure I've read that the measures are to be enacted across all bovines at a yet unconfirmed date in the medium term. Thankfully Tb is only a sporadic issue locally but I know areas that are plagued with it and in a breeding/live trading system its a recipe for disaster. I'd agree that the 1 residency birth to table type setup seems to be favored more and more. I could be wrong but I think some of the English processor's have bonuses for it.

The live trade for forward store and fat cattle of all categories is a thorn in the side of the processor's. This summer especially it was plain to see what could be given for certain types of stock (especially AAx) when the pressure was on. It's one thing to fob lads off with bonuses, grading, kill outs, QA, one off deals and so forth but it's not so easy to talk the job down when you're giving an all in price around the ring for everyone to see.

Sheep breeder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935115#Comment_119935115

What is the good effort with the wild life

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119935966#Comment_119935966

Twould sicken a body

Any chance the unfair trading practices boyos (competition authority) might cast a critical eye on yet another lever to get a lads balls into a processor's vice....or would this be "outside of a remit"

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119937573#Comment_119937573

Not a chance in hell as TB surveillance/testing is legislated under various Animal Welfare Acts and animal welfare trumps all - or it should.

Having said that have a look at this from ten years ago and if I was to trawl further back I reckon that I would come up with similar.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/arid-20238190.html

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119937989#Comment_119937989

Thank you, very interesting.

Certainly flies in the face of opinions I've been hearing over the years

Lime Tree Farm

A TB vaccine for every calf should spare us a lot of expense, if it is ever allowed to happen here.

https://aphascience.blog.gov.uk/2020/09/02/tb-vaccine-field-trials/

148multi

Just looking at this, does TB know the difference between a 37 month old male and a 37 month old female ?

Or is it just securing an industry .