Dangerous Dogs Owners

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970539#Comment_119970539

A dog is not dangerous until it is. That’s the problem. Why wait to see if your dog took a dislike to someone and bites them.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970910#Comment_119970910

Yeah, cuz you know what, all bull breeds just waiting in queue to savage someone, it's well known fact that owners are feeding them with human flesh in the dark basements...

REPTILEDAN88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970360#Comment_119970360

What you have is a Bull Terrier, no such registered breed as the EBT either here, or elsewhere. So don't bother with a muzzle if you don't want to as you're technically not breaking any laws. I had the same when I had mine with people crossing the road away from us, all the while an aggressive Leonberger tore lumps out of a Labrador when it was left to roam, ironically they are supposed to be one of the gentler giant breeds, for anyone who doesn't know what a Leonberger is they look basically like German Shepherd x St Bernard. This one was let roam at night time as the owners son left it at his mothers and never socialised it etc leading it to be super defensive, like when you walk by the house it would be covering the front window pounding at it to get out at you, anyone who has seen Cujo will know what a giant dog coming at someone looks like, at least it wasn't a kid it attacked though. I used to get the garda stopping us almost every time we left the house to walk ours and im not exaggerating that because of how he looked and we didn't muzzle him, ironically in the 8 years we had him not once did he try bite anyone etc but had been attacked himself a bunch of times from 2 terriers in my estate, a husky that grabbed him by the face one night on a walk, a Beagle 3x times in one night which you'd think after the first time the owner would put their dog on a lead. Had the dog warden at the house and she couldn't id the list of restricted breeds despite being handed a dog book to do so and was even brought into the house by brother and shown how the dog was kept and she left commenting on how well he was looked after. One local Garda cycled passed myself, my brother and a neighbour as we walked him one day not a word said about him until a week or two later when the other neighbour started ringing the Garda over him being walked without a muzzle, if the Garda saw him and thought he was anyway dangerous surely she would have said something the first time she didn't though as he was just strolling along with us on lead.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970632#Comment_119970632

The problem with the logic that only dogs that show aggressive tendencies should wear muzzles again puts the onus on the owner to decide what is aggressive and act responsibly. Most owners ignore any sign of aggression as "playful" or "friendly".

The main problem with a lot of dog bites/attacks is that people have no idea how to read their dogs body language and ignore multiple signs of anxiety, fear and discomfort and essentially push the dog into a position where they feel they have no other defence. People who say my cute little dog bit out of the blue, they just ignored a lot of warning signs as "cute" behaviour before it happened.

Obviously I am not saying that is the case with this attack in wexford there are some dogs that are just wired wrong and putting them into a bad home is almost guaranteeing something bad will happen - but the fact remains, that dog had shown serious aggression on propensity to attack in the days before and the owners still chose to do nothing.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970910#Comment_119970910

Aggressive behaviour encompasses more than “savaging” someone.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970994#Comment_119970994

I agree with you there. There are copious amounts of pet owners out there who don’t understand their animals and who are aggravating the situations. I despair when I see dogs being dragged around in busy areas or at venues where they clearly should not be.

You can usually make some good assumptions on the dog by assessing the owner.

spookwoman

It was my aunts dog called trixie, trixie was a brindle which I can just about remember. It was the calf that she took a chunk out of. She later got an airdale which hated men. 😏

Jacko was the one that got the English sheep dog.

Dinny was my dad's baby walker and dinny was registered with the kennel club as brigadier burwig

That enough history.

Meirleach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970833#Comment_119970833

Fine then, here is a 23 year study from Manitoba province, on the effectiveness of BSL

https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/19/3/177

Generally they've seen the biggest decrease in bites requiring hospitalisation to under 20s.

Here is another one from Catalonia if you want something more European, 38% reduction in hospitalisations. BSL introduced including mandatory muzzling for dangerous breedshttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/46095573_Decline_in_hospitalisations_due_to_dog_bite_injuries_in_Catalonia_1997-2008_An_effect_of_government_regulation

I would have originally not been in favour of BSL myself, but in light of the fatality stats, and the more severe injuries stats, I'd be happy with any and all of the bull terriers and put bull family being banned.

We can waffle on about how nice the dogs are individually but as a breed they are significantly more prone to causing fatalities and severe injuries.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971051#Comment_119971051

Since you were mentioning Toronto, look up what way Calgary went

https://www.google.com/amp/s/montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/how-calgary-reduced-dog-attacks-without-banning-pit-bulls/wcm/feaa21b5-3109-4723-ae34-632f69db030f/amp/

For me that's the way to go.

Actually if it is working in Manitoba, why it's not working in Ontario. Properly enforced non breed specific legislation together with education etc. is much easier and workable solution imo.

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970632#Comment_119970632

It’s part of the rules that allow you to have that type of dog, though, right?

Like, I might feel like I don’t need a seatbelt while driving because I’m an excellent driver but it’s the law, and potentially protects other passengers in the car, so I put mine on.

The list isn’t arbitrary, those breeds are “restricted” for a reason. You’d think the owners of these breeds, and who praise their gentleness so loudly, would abide by these simple rules that allow these breeds to get out.

In fact, if more of these owners muzzled their dogs they wouldn’t be getting any negative attention as they wouldn’t be able to attack people.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971051#Comment_119971051

We can waffle on about how nice the dogs are individually but as a breed they are significantly more prone to causing fatalities and severe injuries.

Look i have no beef in it myself, as in I'm not owner of a dog out of that family. Worry is, when you start banning one breed this year, next year it's gonna be another breed and before you know we'll have only rabbits as a pets and because they can be cùnts as well (we have one in the house too, dogs love him and looks like he's ok with it)...well where is it going to end? And good luck to anyone telling me to give up my dogs. As for those bull breeds, personally I don't think those fatalities and severe injuries are because of breed. But there was plenty posted already on that topic. Banning something won't work. Good owners would take the hit and the bad ones would move on and pick another target.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971283#Comment_119971283

I do not follow rules that don’t make any sense. As I said: I’d muzzle my dog if it showed signs of aggression or agitation.

The dogs that escape their home grounds and/ or roam the streets unsupervised are a far greater danger.

Meirleach

I think that's a fair point. Government overreach is something I worry about, but there's always a balance. A fair amount of people were against mandatory seatbelt usage, but it's saved lives.

I can link some studies showing the extra damage pit bull bites do but not sure there's any point.

I agree with the Calgary proposals broadly, but I think where we are going to differ is that I'm also in favour of breed specific legislation like the ones implemented in Catalonia.

If any good comes out of this horrific incident hopefully it will shine a spotlight on the backyard breeders, the in many cases low standard of dog ownership and training in Ireland, and more enforcement around the existing restricted list and bad owners.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971384#Comment_119971384

I get your point too. I'd say there wasn't too many balanced posts for or against BSL. So even if we won't agree on that point, I do appreciate a talk. So thank you.

And as you say in your last paragraph, hopefully we'll see big push against backyard breeders etc. It would be great to adapt approach as Calgary, or Sweden did around the doggies and owners. I think it would be money well spent. Less bites, less injuries, more happy dogs, more happy people and in some cases more informed people.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970995#Comment_119970995

The logic is still flawed though.

If only individual dogs that have been aggressive have to be muzzled, then by definition the risk of people being the victim of that aggression goes up.

And how on earth would you enforce it?

Ideally people would just be responsible and muzzle their dogs because it's the right thing to do, but being responsible isn't really a thing for this demographic.

4shameee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970842#Comment_119970842

Fair play to you.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971343#Comment_119971343

But if all dogs are on the lead and muzzled in public. We would all of us, as owners, be on the same line and doggies as well, doesn't matter the race, doesn't matter the breed 😁. No more complaints like oh that big scary dog has no muzzle, or that little bollox running around no leash and biting my mozzled big dude etc.

Would that rule make sense?

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971643#Comment_119971643

Unfortunately dogs dont like muzzleing. I walk my mother's german shepherd and i cant walk him day time during summer months with a muzzle because he over heats. Dogs need to stick out their tongue to cool down. It would very very crule to walk him on a sunny summers day with a muzzle. So can see why alot of owners avoid this. I use to always muzzle him but he has go so old now that i just walk him as late as possible when not as busy with no muzzle. It had got to the stage where he was nearly panting for over 30 minutes after a 40 miniute walk so stopped with the muzzle.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971643#Comment_119971643

I’ll be willing to do this when people start muzzling their children and put them on leads. I am not muzzling a non aggressive dog.

Tazzimus

I've stopped muzzling our Dobie recently, due to her being attacked by other dogs while muzzled and not being able to defend herself, so I've had to step in.

First two times, it was some form of Terrier (as always) so they could be reigned in by the owner, eventually.

Third time, a Labrador went for her and the owner couldn't control it, that was a bit hairy.

I'm all for muzzles, for all dogs, eliminates stuff like the above happening then. Plus some allow a bit of movement so they can pant etc to cool off on warmer days.

Granted, each time she was attacked, she just looked at me as if to say "What do I do here?"

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971891#Comment_119971891

Hahaha. I like it. I generally prefer dogs to kids. At what age should children be un-muzzled and allowed of their leads? I was thinking 12 but I don't really like teenagers either.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971757#Comment_119971757

You're using the wrong type of muzzle. For walks and longer uses it should be a basket muzzle and the dog should be measured while it has a ball or something similar in its mouth to ensure they have sufficient pant room. They should be able to drink water through it and you should be able to feed treats in. The ones that restrict panting are only suitable for short term use like in vets or groomers.

Plus you need to train your dog to like it, easiest to start when young but we trained ours when he was a year old (rescue). Loads of you tube videos on how best to do this.

Again most owners don't even seem to know the basics, and I didn't when we got ours but I made sure to learn quickly.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971891#Comment_119971891

Should be done too, at least sometimes.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971944#Comment_119971944

12 would be about right time to start. Leash only up to that age.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119964917#Comment_119964917

Change to banning the breed here as in the North. If they can there we can too. If a few 'innocent' pit bull types are put down by accident so what? Nothing to be gained by not doing this.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971891#Comment_119971891

Get your point, I wouldn't muzzle my two either, but I do, they have no problem with it . Thought it would be a good start, if we make no difference between small or big, or so called dangerous and safe breeds etc . Still better than ban certain breeds or even worse as some were suggesting here. I think.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972027#Comment_119972027

Agreed.

Yeah_Right

Does anyone have a pic of the dog involved? I've googled and can't find any photos of it in any reports. Lots of the reports seem to have stock images of various dogs looking fierce but I have my doubts if even half those pictures are of pitt bulls.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972043#Comment_119972043

It was pit bull, or one of those yokes. Big heads, big jaws .. if you see one, run.

Or we'll have to wait, if there is any update. And in the meantime some posters here are already eradicating multiple dog breeds.

As a well thought precaution..

Ms2011

Probably hard to identify the dog properly once it was hacked to death with an axe.