Dangerous Dogs Owners

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973002#Comment_119973002

Maybe I missed that post but I didn’t see anyone say exactly that?

DubLad69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972482#Comment_119972482

People love them like family, is that not a good reason?

I won’t speak about pitbulls or other breeds, but lots of people love the affection that Staffordshire bull terriers give and crave, they love the way they were specifically breed to be gentle with people, the way they are always happy and loyal. The personality types they tend to have.

They are the perfect family pet, and most kennel clubs and animal rescue charities will say the same.

The problem is that they LOOK tough, and because they look tough you often get wannabe tough guys buying them, chopping their ears and tail. Mistreating them and purposely training them to attack. And it’s not an easy thing to do, because it is not in their nature.

You are more likely to be bitten by almost any other dog breed. And you are more likely to be killed by a lab, a husky, or even a boxer. All of which people see as acceptable breeds.

I do get your point about them being more likely to do damage if they do attack someone, that's very fair. But, if the law was to clamp down on all dog owners, imprisonment and heavy fines for mistreatment, neglect, etc and requiring people to do dog training then the incidences of dog biting in these dogs would be practically zero.

The dog and their family should not be punished just because he has the potential to do harm. To me, that is like saying that we know that busses don't crash very often, but because they are so large when they do they cause huge damage so we should just make everyone get a car instead.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972680#Comment_119972680

As usual you are letting emotion take over and you ignoring facts. You are so blinded by your viewpoint that you're claiming I'm arguing something I never said. Go back and read what I actually posted.

And if my son was threatened, I'd hope that big, beautiful 60kg of love and loyalty would use all of its teeth and muscles to **** that threat up.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973340#Comment_119973340

Re: your bit about most dog charities would say they are perfect pets.

This goes against a guy from DSCPA who was on the news the night of the attack, who said the complete opposite. He said these types of breeds should not be family pets.

spookwoman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972660#Comment_119972660

If a dog is inherently vicious through it's genetics then yes it is the dogs fault and a fault in it's breeding just as it's the owners fault for keeping a restricted breed, allowed it unmuzzled in public and not under control. If it wasn't the fault of the dog they would just get it rehomed, trained etc, it's a reason why dogs are often put down after an attack because they are known to bite.

If I get a car that has a design fault, a fault that is appearing in other cars, it's under investigation and before a recall, say a fuel tank problem. Like the 1970's Pinto issue. One day I get rear ended by someone and my car goes on fire due to this fault. Who's fault is that, mine or the manufacturers?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973450#Comment_119973450

You're not arguing it (and I didn't mean to say you were) but plenty others are. The "it's not even a real pit bull" line has come up over and over in this thread.

But yeah, exactly, your Rottweiler would "use all of its teeth and muscles to **** that threat up." Do you the see the problem there? It's a dog. It cannot distinguish a real threat from the postman or an overexcited toddler pulling on its tail.

And that's where the issue arises. We all think our dog is a pussycat, part of the family, wouldn't hurt a fly, because dogs are loyal and subservient to their owners, it's been bred into them for thousands of years. They aren't loyal or subservient to the people down the road, and then we run into problems.

But look, I don't have a dog but I do have small kids. I see pictures of that kid in Wexford and yeah, I do get angry and maybe a bit irrational about it because parents should not have to worry about their kids being savaged. It shouldn't even be an issue, but scroll up the thread and look at all the owners of dangerous dogs flat out saying they won't muzzle them. If people could just be responsible, then the problem goes away, but they won't. That's when the state needs to act.

And the unpalatable reality is, these dogs, whether its pit bulls or XL bullys or staffordshire bulls or whatever, they attract a certain type of owner who just won't give a f**k. And here we are.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973566#Comment_119973566

At least you are admitting to being irrational about this. Nobody on this thread said they wouldn’t muzzle their dangerous dog. But you equate breed with danger and you are excluding all other factors.

The dog in this case should never have been out and unmuzzled, and not a single person disputed this.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973566#Comment_119973566

But yeah, exactly, your Rottweiler would "use all of its teeth and muscles to **** that threat up." Do you the see the problem there? It's a dog. It cannot distinguish a real threat from the postman or an overexcited toddler pulling on its tail.

Well socialized and trained dog will definitely know the real threat. And won't go to eat postman instead. No one should let overexcited toddler pulling dog's tail. As you train your dog, you have to train kids around the dogs as well. It's a basics. My kids basically grew up with our lab, learning responsibilities towards to her, how to behave around her etc. And the doggie was doing same. It did the great job for kids and great job for our lab.

4shameee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973655#Comment_119973655

Certain breeds of dogs are more dangerous.

Ms2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973491#Comment_119973491

Ah come on now, a car can't be influenced by its environment so that makes no sense. Dogs are dogs first and breed second, there are very few inherently bad dogs just like there are very few inherently bad people.

4shameee

The actual Irish society for the PREVENTION of cruelty to animals came out with this in 2007 about Pitbull terriers. ISPCA general manager Mark Beasley said: "We would be in favour of a ban on pit bull terriers because we cannot endorse the ownership of them as companion animals. We have serious concerns in particular about American pit bulls and any cross-breeds from it. They are primarily bred as fighting dogs. It's in their genes."No matter how well somebody claims they can control a pit bull, the evidence - and that unfortunate incident in the UK shows - is that they are unpredictable and difficult to control." But yeah don't muzzle yours. Pathetic.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973655#Comment_119973655

Honestly, I'd rather be irrational because a 9 year old kid is scarred for life than be irrational because it's suggested a dangerous dog should have to wear a muzzle. You're on the other side of that debate and that's fine, such is the rich tapestry of life.

You're continually ignoring the fact that the type of person who buys these dogs is also the type of person who doesn't give a shyte about anyone else. Expecting these guys to take personal responsibility for their dogs isn't going to work.

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973906#Comment_119973906

Ok so you (and a few others on here) get your wish and pitt bulls, staffies, bullies and cross breeds with them get banned and wiped out from Ireland. The type of people who owned those dogs to appear tough and weren't responsible dog owners, now decide Rottweilers are the status dog for them. Maulings, bites, attacks still happen. The government bans and wipes out all rotties.

So they move to Dobermans. Same thing happens.

Then its German Shepards.

Then Wolfhounds.

Then St Bernards.

Then ...

At what point to we stop blaming the dog and start looking at the people? Proper regulations, enforcement and penalties to make sure people are responsible dog owners would be far more effective than just emotional reactions banning types of dogs.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973340#Comment_119973340

Buses serve an important public function. Other dogs with a better record can do the same family thing too so no it isn't a good enough reason.

Staffordshire terrier -

'Victim found dead in his own home, mauled to death by his own dog, possibly after an epileptic seizure. Neighbours claimed the same dog attacked a child a few months before, though it was suggested that the dog might have merely jumped at the girl, and the scratches sustained were from falling over.[23] The victim and dog were said to be inseparable, and the dog was known to nip at his owner to bring him around from seizures before. The dog was later destroyed'

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973655#Comment_119973655

Pretty sure every restricted breed owner on this thread has said they don’t muzzle their dog. Even though it is one of the very small “measures” required for ownership of such dogs.

I mean, I got my dog microchipped, medical shots, keep her on a lead and whatever else I had to do to own a normal dog. If I wanted a specific dog that could, potentially, endanger others I would follow the rules for that as well.

All seems incredible selfish, after all, the owners of restricted breeds aren’t the ones going to be put down if their dog attacks someone.

Yeah_Right

@EmmetSpiceland pretty sure you need to read the thread again. I think 1 maybe 2 people said they never muzzle their dog. One poster said they muzzle both their dogs even though only one is restricted.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974112#Comment_119974112

It's not my "wish" at all. My wish is that people would just behave responsibly, another wish is to get a handjob from Beyonce, and I honestly would rate the latter as more likely.

You can see it from this thread, people just do not take this seriously. Not sure what more evidence we need but you still get the "pit bulls/bullies/staffies" aren't dangerous, people are" line over and over. If people won't even accept there is an issue, what hope do you have of getting them to act?

Do a bit of reading on the alleged culprit down in Wexford and ask yourself if this is a guy who'll pay attention to stricter regulations. For guys like this, the dog is a symbol of not giving a f**k. How do you tackle that? That's when you need blunt instuments like blanket restrictions.

Ms2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974730#Comment_119974730

He'd find it hard to own a dog from a jail cell.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974832#Comment_119974832

We are a million miles away from jailing people for improper control of dogs. We do not and will not use prison for things like this. It is simply never going to happen.

spookwoman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973767#Comment_119973767

Read up on the evolution of dogs. They were Wolves that hung around humans scavenging for scraps and whatever. They are not sure if they became used to humans and just integrated or if they were tamed. Either way humans started to breed dogs that were designed originally to protect and warn and over time bred for different tasks that included herding and protecting. Over 15,000 or years of breeding we then get to Pit bulls which were bred to fight, its their design. They tried to change the design and breed out the attack humans trait but people who haven't a bloody clue started breeding willynilly and the trait of attacking humans was bred back in and in some cases due to inbreeding etc that is stronger again. Then add in gobshites who don't know how to train or control said breed that already has an inherent design/trait of attacking and fighting and it's a bomb waiting to explode.

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119964648#Comment_119964648

Oh dear, you didn't get the obvious sarcasm and point in my post at all then. Imagine how the poor dogs feel if you got a little upset.

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974112#Comment_119974112

This exact point has been made for days and day, pages and pages. They don't get it. They probably don't get much of anything beyond whatever reaction is right in front of their face. It's pitchfork wielding mob stuff. One of them honestly thought I wanted to kill all people who wanted to kill all bull breeds, he didn't get what was staring him in the face. Either that or that was a pathetic attempt at shutting down conversation. But then, that's Boards for you.

Ms2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974870#Comment_119974870

Yeah its easier to just ban an entire breed.

If maming an innocent child isn't reason enough to jail someone then I don't know what is

Ms2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974972#Comment_119974972

So punish the people not the dog.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973906#Comment_119973906

I have to take issue with you saying that 'the type of person who buys these dogs is also the type of person who doesn't give a shyte about anyone else'. Some do, some don't. I'm 50 and we've had Staffordshire Bull Terriers for about 40 of those 50 years. Our last Staff died in 2016 and it was like a family member dying. Hand on heart none of them ever bit anyone. That said, we didn't let them run around the street. They were kept in the back yard and one or two actually managed to live in the house with us over the years. Once the laws came in about having them on a muzzle when out and about, that's what we did.

We're not all irresponsible people who don't give a shyte about anyone else.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119975428#Comment_119975428

If maming an innocent child isn't reason enough to jail someone then I don't know what is

But jailing him after the child has been maimed is closing the gate after the horse has bolted. It won't give that kid back his lower lip.

We need better ways to prevent these things from happening, in addition to punishing those who can't or won't behave like normal human beings.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119975473#Comment_119975473

In your case you seem reasonable but the fact is many aren't and that shows in the stats. No way of getting away from that.

4shameee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119975051#Comment_119975051

The actual Irish society for the PREVENTION of cruelty to animals came out with this in 2007 about Pitbull terriers. ISPCA general manager Mark Beasley said: "We would be in favour of a ban on pit bull terriers because we cannot endorse the ownership of them as companion animals. We have serious concerns in particular about American pit bulls and any cross-breeds from it. They are primarily bred as fighting dogs. It's in their genes."No matter how well somebody claims they can control a pit bull, the evidence - and that unfortunate incident in the UK shows - is that they are unpredictable and difficult to control." But yeah don't muzzle yours. Pathetic

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119974112#Comment_119974112

Muzzles and leads to be worn at all times in public (owners included).

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119975465#Comment_119975465

And the dog.