€1,350/cow payment to cut suckler numbers

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364014#Comment_120364014

It was a complete own goal by the farming organisations. It was in the farming independence by Angus Woods four weeks ago.

''Why suckler farmers will end up paying a heavy price for their leaders’ actions

Angus Woods

Misguided populist political sloganeering is proving expensive for suckler farmers who need to reduce their herds or want to retire

February 16 2023 06:47 AM

This spring sees farmers coming face to face with the implications of rapid policy changes. CAP reform, the new nitrates regulations, and emissions reduction targets, along with increased input costs and volatile commodity prices are all conspiring to make 2023 a year of significant challenges on farms.

Many farmers will be forced to make decisions as a result of how other farmers are affected by the new nitrates regulations.

Increased land rental and purchase prices are being driven by strong profits in the dairy sector and their need to access more land in order to hold their current cow numbers.

As dairy farmers are forced into sourcing more land, the tillage and dry-stock sectors are finding it hard to compete to retain their rented land base.

Those farmers being priced out of the land-market need options. The target of a 25pc reduction in agricultural emissions is widely acknowledged as being hard to achieve at current stock levels.

Due to the current lack of a dominant farm organisation, Minister Charlie McConalogue set up various Food Vision groups to come up with proposals as to how each sector could achieve the 25pc reduction.

Professor Thia Hennessy chaired the Beef and Sheep Vision group, which included the farm organisations.

The group produced an 86-page report, concluding that significant financial support will be needed to support farmers.

Included in the report were recommendations for two schemes: one voluntary scheme to pay farmers to reduce their suckler cow numbers, and a second voluntary scheme to pay farmers who wish to exit suckler cows.

With the exception of the ICMSA, all the other farm organisations objected to the inclusion of the two schemes in the report, and campaigned against the prospect of voluntary schemes that would pay their farmer members if they chose to avail of the option of reducing their own herds.

The much more profitable dairy sector chose to allow their farmers to make that decision for themselves.

Minister McConalogue is too streetwise to allow himself to be portrayed as the minister who culled the suckler cows.

Safe in the knowledge that suckler cow numbers are reducing anyway, he outmanoeuvred the farm organisations, and took the option of voluntary reduction and exit schemes off the table.

Money that should have been destined for suckler farmers will now be available to help dairy farmers meet their 25pc emission reduction target, and help with their nitrates difficulties.

Last week I spoke with a suckler farmer who was priced out of a block of land that he has farmed for the last 30 years. The dairy farmer who was successful in securing it needed extra land to maintain his current cow numbers, and the under-bidder, another dairy farmer, was in a similar position.

Because of all the changes that farmers are facing this year, what they need most are options. Farmers are business people and every farm has a different financial situation.

The more options that are available for farmers in difficult situations, the better. Of all farming systems, the low-income suckler farmer is the one most in need of options to diversify, which can’t be done without money.

The farmer that I spoke to will need to reduce his suckler herd by 40 cows, and because of the position taken by the farm organisations, he won’t be able to avail of a voluntary scheme to pay him for reducing cows.

The Food Vision Beef and Sheep report put values of €1,350 per cow for reducing cow numbers, and €1,080 per cow for culling a full herd.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364826#Comment_120364826

I think it’s daft to pay lads to reduce suckler cows when that’s happening naturally anyway through lads converting to dairy of exiting completely and renting out the land. Top that off beef prices are high so culls are making good money.

Lads are pointing out dry stock / tillage lads are being priced out of rented land as well.

Methane emissions are vastly overstated in Irish context as well. We are a grass based system. Some say the real emissions are vastly lower. They could be lowered again with methane reduction supplementation and better use of fertiliser etc.

They need to bring farmers on board with promotion of methane reduction supplementation and maybe encourage more green energy on farms.

No way will there be majority electronic vehicles in Ireland anytime soon. Also, are they really better for the environment?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365198#Comment_120365198

I don’t need a handout. These schemes offer Mickey Mouse money anyway.

The cull price is high. Any payments should be offered in a new system once the person converts.

The trend has seen a continued exodus from from beef cows.

Buying bullocks and finishing them is an alternative to suckler cows but there is only a handy few bob in it as well.

To have any hope in making money at beef in any system you need to keep costs low as possible. That way you have some hope.

The mercosur trade deal will be passed soon anyway. Then prices per kilo dead weight will be around 4 euro.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365260#Comment_120365260

Its alot easier for the suckler man to keep his costs low if he could reduce his numbers a bit, and he could have got money for doing so. Less fert, less feed, no worries about drought or monsoons. Cattle out earlier and stay out later in the year. Plenty dairy lads mad to take any excess silage ground for decent money and maintain the P&K levels.

The argument that lads are reducing anyway so don't give us money is moot. Also is the cull price, that will be on the floor along with the weanling price once things revert back to 'normal'.

You don't need a handout you say, well this was a VOLUNTARY reduction scheme and its clear you are not reducing so you wouldn't have got anything anyway 🤗

You know you are on the wrong side of the road when MII are standing next to you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365339#Comment_120365339

The handouts I was referring to was the the suckler schemes etc. Sure I already pay that back in tax.

How would your system do at 4 euro a kilo?

Things will only revert back to a low price if beef production is increased in the northern hemisphere or when the mercosur deal is passed.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365369#Comment_120365369

I won't be making money at €4 base at current input costs but I could slash my fert, feed and contractor bills if someone paid me to finish 20% less stores.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364841#Comment_120364841

The dairy lads should be supported in methane reduction measures. They are actively farming and we’re encouraged to up numbers.

Active farmers need to be on board to reduce methane within active herds and to allow them to contribute in terms of green energy production.

Once of payments are just lining lads pockets for no real benefit especially when beef prices are high. Sure a decent beef cow would do 2k in the factory.

Decarbonisation methods through accurate measurements of methane production of cows, energy production on farms, better breeding, methane reduction supplementation and better use of fertiliser is a better use of that money

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120365769#Comment_120365769

Wouldn’t it be better if you were supported in to an alternative revenue stream with grants to set up solar and maybe improve the quality of your grazing / silage?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366925#Comment_120366925

Cows do generate methane. I believe the amounts are overstated though especially in Ireland in a grass based system.

I often get cattle away well under 30 months off grass with no meal. You see lads on here getting all excited about getting cattle away at 350 kilos at 28 months. I think that’s a poor weight even if they got no meal.

I don’t see the logic it handing out cash to lads to cull cows. If they want to partner with farmers in green initiatives then I would support that approach and think it’s a good use of funding.

Farmers are good people to get involved as they have know how, buildings and land. Green energy could provide an additional revenue stream and would also be a useful marketing tool for farming.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120368732#Comment_120368732

It goes back to the same thing anyway. Cattle in a feedlot in Texas produce a lot more carbon emissions because they need feed grown at a high cost of both land, fertiliser and fuel pumped in to them.

Cattle on grass are more carbon efficient. However when lads depend on pumping cattle on grass with large amounts of meal that argument starts to fail.

Id be very much of the opinion that cost control is essential. I can’t see how lads can do well over a 10 year cycle if the rely on intensive inputs in any beef system.

I like the New Zealand idea around improving genetics, supplements and other practices.

Giving lads a grand a cow to convert from bad suckler farmers to bad store to beef farmers isn’t the answer in my opinion.

Look at the optics of that in a time of a housing and cost of living crisis

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369074#Comment_120369074

When bullocks were killed at 4 & 5 years old they didn’t need concentrates.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369106#Comment_120369106

At what kind of weights though?

Like keeping an animal that 3, 4 and 5 year must cost a fortune

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369148#Comment_120369148

It was old times, out wintering on rough land with an odd bit of hay. Beef was once low input. In the want of more profit we’ve made it higher input and is the output much more. Maybe it’s time to step back and reevaluate