€1,350/cow payment to cut suckler numbers

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018540#Comment_120018540

Your sums are well off there mate.

Try 4.5 bales of good silage, even valued at 50 a bale that's €225. Out to good grass in March. Max of 60 days of meal @ 3kg/d to finish in July/Aug U30m. Will cost about €550 to carry those yearlings to finish. Purchase price €500-600 for decent 300kg+ yearlings bought in March. All will kill over 340kg DW. Its the only way to do friesian bullocks. Will take a crazy amount of meal to get them to a fat score of 3 to finish U24 months like you keep suggesting, and even then you have a ~270kg carcass.

My only gripe with the friesian bullock is that the price has usually dropped by the time they are ready in July/Aug, whereas the AA and HE's will all be gone by mid June. But that is baked into the purchase price of a friesian bullock anyway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018685#Comment_120018685

You must have a short winter if you are getting away with 4.5.

Keeping a handle on costs is the key when finishing cattle.

JohnChadwick

Yea Sinn Fein won't be in until March 2025. Hard to know will they have been allowed enough scope and time to meet whatever emissions targets are in place. Be hard to imagine them giving soft handouts to suckler farmers in any case.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018732#Comment_120018732

Not really, just high DM May silage. Stores went in Nov 5th and 4.5 bales will get them to about March 10th. Usually get them out around then.

joe35

The father was saying a few weeks ago he seen in the Journal, that there would be a 5,000 subsidy for culling suckler cows.

I don't know where or when he seen the article, but 1350 seems a long way off 5,000.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018867#Comment_120018867

Ah here. There will be lads getting sex changes for bullocks to cows at that rate

Anto_Meath

@smallbeef and @[Deleted User] I have pens with 14 store bullocks in each, a bale of silage will last my suckler bred stock 3 day, my AAx & Hex dairy stock about 2.5 days and from previous experience FR about 2 days. Again my cattle would be in from around Dec 1st until after St Patrick's Day. So my suckler bred cattle would eat about 4 bales of silage each for the winter, Hex & AAx 4.5 bales and when I had FRs you would allow 5 bales each. But as the FR cattle seem to hate slates I used to try and get them out first if at all possible. I was saying this to my brother last year, he said they is no way there could be that much of a difference in what they ate, so this year he pen his cattle by breed. He has 15, 18 month old FRs in a pen, he feeds pit silage and he can't believe how much harder they ware on feed than the the other cattle in the shed.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017743#Comment_120017743

Anything that reduces the number of calves produced is a help. When calf and export end as well as more dairy calves there will be 250,-300k calves more there to be finished. Dairy farmers will have to carry them to 8 week if demand is poor.

I see all the experts are out explaining out how to finish a Friesian bullock. Now I buy stores and the earlier in the year you buy them the better the margin. As other have said high DM silage, totally against expert advice. But sure we all make mistakes after all these were the lads that advised us to finish pre second winter or polish them off fast in the house on Ad-lib meal.........then they said put them to grass and slaughter in May( I have seen the weights and grades and was not impressed.

It hovering between 1.1-1.2euro a day to carry my stores over the winter this year. Mostly Friesian's. That is costing silage at 36-38/ bale. House 5-10th November on average, back to grass 17-25th March on average 135 days.

Wintering cost 160 euro inc mins&vits . Grass costs Friesian that come in early go out early those that come in late go out late summer. Previously I costed it at 100/ head now it probably goes to 125/ head. Dosing vet transport mortality and misc is 100/ head. Ration 3/ head/ day for ten weeks is 80 euro. Total 465

Average store cost 640inc mart fees in 202, this year it probably a tad lower than that. They can hang off grass any time from June on. I have not calculated the average slaughter value this year.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018981#Comment_120018981

Had noticed that too with some AAX and HEX heifers vs CH and LM suckler heifers of the same age. I’m now of the opinion of bigger cows been harder fed and 2% body weight is BS. Once our dry suckler bred stock come into the shed with a little condition it takes very little to keep them that way.

Base price

@Bass Reeves

I'm not having a go at you but where is the reduction of livestock coming from.

At the end of the day the dairy herd is increasing whilst the suckler herd is diminishing.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019750#Comment_120019750

I cannot see a reduction, whether we like it or not. The problem with no suckler exit subsidity is that lads are hanging in for one.

It's 60-80% self financing as it will see a reduction in financing present suckler cow support schemes. I cannot see the objection it gives a choice to some suckler farmers they can cease running suckler cows and either go into other beef or sheep production.

Why should it worry people if other accept it as an option. You will carry a beef unit ( calf, yearling and a two year old ) where you carry a suckler unit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019913#Comment_120019913

Haven’t had a caesarean in around 20 years. Can’t remember the last case of mastitis. Rarely pull a calf, if I have to the cow is marked for the road.

I can see the argument for a dairy cross bullock or heifer that can be hung at say over 300/270 sub 24 months.

Your system may work for you but there are people making a margin in sucklers improving gear and facilities along the way.

Sucklers are reducing naturally anyway and there is no need for a scheme. You will probably have to go to Dublin zoo to see a cow in 15 years the way things are going.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019913#Comment_120019913

And if you could buy an eight week old calf of there's for 100-400 euro depending on quality and breeding you could not go too far wrong

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019994#Comment_120019994

You will not have to go to the Zoo to see a cow there's will be plenty black and white ones around

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020007#Comment_120020007

I have my doubts. Sure cattle are as big an enemy of the climate as fossil fuels if you listen to the mainstream media

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120019750#Comment_120019750

Dairy expansion is outstripping suckler reduction so either way the New Zealand approach will have to be followed around improvements in genetics and supplementation.

The government promoted dairy expansion. They can’t back track now inside the space of 7 or 8 years farmers have taken on too many commitments in terms of leases and loans etc.

smallbeef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120018981#Comment_120018981

I agree with you there. I have a narrow centre feed passage with pens both sides, put a few bales in the passage and they eat from both sides. Have all the FRs on one side and mix of AA/HE the other. Similar numbers in both sides but I do find myself piking silage more to the FR's.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020157#Comment_120020157

I wouldn't like to bet a bag of ration that this Govt will give a hoot about what lads have invested etc etc.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020228#Comment_120020228

What a Fr eats is incredible and the uglier they are, the more they eat.

That said for a lot of lads, self included, they do the job often better than most.

wrangler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020277#Comment_120020277

Why would they, it ain't their problem.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020277#Comment_120020277

I think the government will push afforestation as a solution which is the eu suggestion. As we know this government will do tax free deals for big funds. Perhaps big funds get in to forestry for guaranteed returns for so called carbon sinks for 30 years

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020286#Comment_120020286

I’d say the key is cost control as in keep them at grass as long as possible

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020277#Comment_120020277

TBH I wouldn't take that bet. I don't think the traditional farming sector realise how large the dairy expansion has been over the past few years. OH and I have witnessed it first hand as it grew - we are not dairy farmers but we do work with dairy farmers. Teagasc/DAFM/and various Government bodies have driven and supported production - they won't pull the plug nor will the banks/financial institutions.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020403#Comment_120020403

I agree. However there will be some changes. The nitrates allowances to the cows will change. Even if they cannot access fertilizer and milk data they will change the rules accross the total herd. Access to land will limit numbers and calf age retention rules will also impact.

For the last 2-3 years no of cows has increased by 40-50k on average and stands at 1.6 million and will probably hit 1.65 million next year.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020439#Comment_120020439

OH and I have been flat out with ex parlour cull cows and our own feeder cull dairy cows to the factory for most of the year. I've previously posted earlier this year when same were getting €2+/kg live weight in marts.

Anyway, whether we like it or not, dairy bred and their beef cross bred calves will dominate our landscape into the future. However I hope the majority of suckler farmers will sit tight, hold hard and continue to produce quality continental and traditional bred cattle.

893bet

new climate action plan (ironically CAP) is proposing 10 percent number reduction. Embrace it. it will happen slowly and be paid for. E.g organic conversion where number reduce naturally, increased forestry payments taking land out etc.

how they extend it to dairy is not clear.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020638#Comment_120020638

Could it be improved genetics and supplements to reduce methane. If the lads in New Zealand can maintain numbers and cut emissions by 50% in dairy then the lads here can surely do 10%.

The lads doing beef cattle could also use supplements and benefit from improving genetics

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020638#Comment_120020638

The problem is how you square the circle when exports disappear. I saw an article recently questioning the climate change credentials of U24 month slaughter as it will require excessive ration in the diets and pumping cattle from virtual birth to a hie e decent slaughter wrights

JohnChadwick

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120020478#Comment_120020478

Fair enough sit tight and poodle along with sucklers if your an ould lad and its too late to change tack.

If you're young I think maybe best to change to another area. No point holding out for a cull scheme at this stage, as it ain't coming. If sucklers become more financially viable again in future it doesn't take long to re-scale up anyway.

Siamsa Sessions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120021112#Comment_120021112

Isn't that kinda what the Thrive demo farm in the IFJ is doing? Horsing meal into them from mid-summer to try get them gone before a second winter?