€1,350/cow payment to cut suckler numbers

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120050750#Comment_120050750

At them prices a 2K angus would be 355 DW. it would have to be a suckler. Most lads hanging 340kg DW bullocks at 30 months are buying them as stores. Gennerally when I reared calves or dealt in weanlings 10 years ago I could hang Friesian cattle at 360kgs+ DW at 28-30 months.

you have a seriously misunderstanding of the finishing game. Having cattle ready in May means feeding ration over the winter. At present ration prices feeding 3 kgs for 90 days (allowing for compensatory growth) is costing 120 euro. Feedind ration in a shed is a pain in the hole. More waste silage, messing with troughs, moving them when feedinf silage, crows **** in the shed, rats etc. hot cattle going out fail to thrive especiall if left out in a bad March.

I finish 60ish stores a year, I usually catch the tail end of the price in mid June. every year is different. The price held all through 2020&2021, especiall 2021 where i got much the same price in October as June. when finishing bough in stores July/August is usually the sweet spot. However its all about getting the righ level of finish on cattle.

Grass was the killer on grass based systems this year. you seem to forget that 1.5 milluion cattle canot all be slaughtered in May. you have a very narrow view of the beef finishing game a total misunderstanding of amybody else system but you own.

My gross profit in 2021 after direct costs on the finishing of 60 cattle was 28Kish. That is on 24HA going in for area aid ans its is stretching it at that. On a 150 acre farm that would mean a gross profit after direct costs of 70K. Add what ever single farm payment, ANC and Glas to that but at 300+/ HA of BPS, 4.5K/GLAS and 3.5K ANC you would be tipping 100K

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051134#Comment_120051134

He got no meal and weighed 375 and was a suckler calf. Was just over 24 months.

If you can get your stock away in mid June then you would do well in your system. Holding them till October doesn’t come free and you are potentially eating in to autumn grazing for next year’s cattle which would pull forward your housing date.

To be fair this year was tough with the extended dry period that lead to poor grass supply. This would also have delayed your finish on cattle as well.

From my perspective if you reduce the methane output from the active herd then the likes of John gibbons etc can’t be thrashing livestock.

I would also say that cost control is essential in beef as price fluctuations in the factory can be dramatic.

kollegeknight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051134#Comment_120051134

I’m always in awe of your knowledge.

I eat into my payments on 30ha, granted it’s very heavy and boggy land and I have to cover my mams costs. It takes some input to drag a few bales out of it.

at end of year, I get to kill an animal and maybe a few bits of attempted improvements, maybe the odd tool purchased.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051393#Comment_120051393

Do you remember the gospel where Jesus tell the the parable of the three talents

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_talents_or_minas%23:~:text%3DThe%2520%2522Parable%2520of%2520the%2520Talents,the%2520third%2520received%2520only%2520one.&ved=2ahUKEwjA7uHMjqX8AhXIjKQKHeLtC1MQFnoECAwQBQ&usg=AOvVaw0603RHtDfZu5n4j-KQBJmE

Not being arrogant I have the ability to learn from my mistakes. I seldom make the same mistake twice. I understand profit and loss, but more importantly I focus on what works.

Most people will continually put profits back into agriculture, I try to get profit out.

I came from a Kerry mountain farm, it's very easy to farm on on good land. I was gifted in that I could afford to give myself that opportunity.

A talent was a unit of silver. I looked at that parable sightly different. I looked at a talent as a talent. I could never sing or dance. I would have loved to have the ability to sing. God never gave me that ability. I could always tell a joke but I could never start or continue a sing song.

I always disliked the f@@kers who had the ability to sing and you had to beg to sing a song.

I just choose not to hide my bit of ability. It's just a different ability/talent. I am the same as the lad/lassie that will start to sing when you ask them at a session.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051183#Comment_120051183

You misunderstand my system. I could buy cattle to get out in May, July or August. But I operate on margin. As you indicate you have to focus on costs. But you also have to concentrate on margin.

Five bullocks come into a ring. You have to access the value and margin on each one. How long they will be in the system/on the farm, what they will hang and grade and more importantly when they will hang.

You have an obsession with breeding as many suckler farmers have, I just concentrate on ROI. I buy on-line I sell into a system where I have to access the individual value of every animal see what went wrong or right.

If I was running 50-60 sucklers on 150 acres ya I be getting my heifers out at 18-22 months and my bullocks at 26-28.

But I work on variables my skill is buying an animal/ bunch that many will turn there noses up to and turning them into money.

I think it was John Shirley said ''it never pays to breed a bad one but it often pays to buy them ''

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051393#Comment_120051393

I did not fully answer your post. On any farm you have to work the system. Nobody wants to plant an entire farm.

But maybe it makes sense to afforest 10 HA of it. Then again maybe the environment schemes that pay best.

I am not in the position to say how good or bad your land is without being there.

It's all about what works

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051570#Comment_120051570

To be fair. You must be a good judge of cattle. Your system depends on having a good eye for yearlings and you are successful at it.

Feed efficient animals are critical in my opinion and I know that it is possible to run a successful suckler operation if you not only consider feed efficiency but also getting your cows in calf and selecting the right cows with a good hybrid mix.

A suckler cow needs to have plenty of milk, calve unassisted and have decent carcass weight scores in my opinion. She might not even be a muscly cow but she will produce a good quality easily finished calf.

kollegeknight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051579#Comment_120051579

About 19Ha is wet cut away bog. And another 10 is wet muddy ground. We have blue clay about a foot and a half down and it logs water.

the schemes keep me from planting. My late father (gone 8 years today) was dead against forestry and. For good reason as the evergreens have destroyed our locality,

so while my mam is still alive and if I can get into acres, I’ll struggle away. She is totally against it because dad was.

we have a 6 month winter here.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051871#Comment_120051871

Its great to hear from lads surviving on poorer ground .Keep pluging away as best you can .Your essential machinery would be a heavy duty topper and sprayer .If I was you I would try and top all the ground every year .An advantage you have is the big amount of acres ,you might be in a position to take slurry from a dairy farmer on paper or otherwise .A few discreet enquirees to a ag,adviser in intensive dairy area would make it worth your while

kollegeknight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051964#Comment_120051964

That’s it. The topper is the first thing I bought.

I mostly use it with the 4wd case and for very wet places, the 135 as it floats on the top. 😂

I was in hen harrier so cut in a mosaic pattern and lick as spraying not allowed.

I’ve a good teaching job and our house is modest enough. Keeping things simple.

if no acres for me this year, I’ll have to look at some bit of planting just to keep my mams payments going.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051964#Comment_120051964

I'm not getting at you George, but the notions around taking slurry "on paper" have to be confined to history. The slurry needs to move..

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052153#Comment_120052153

who to know and who's business is it only the farmer exporting and the farmer importing

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052165#Comment_120052165

The days of exporting/ importing are gone. From today on if you exceed 170 kgs N/HA you have to have a derogation in place from the start of the year. If you have a derogation you do not need to export unless over 250.

As well the department are tending to look at slurry moving long distances. They will clamp down more and more in this. Co Clare would not be awash with dairy farmers and I would say few of them are hitting the 250 limit

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120052165#Comment_120052165

Mindset has got to change. If that slurry has not left the exporting farm, then an excess of nutrients has been applied and that farm poses a risk to watercourses.

Fine to be of the mindset that it makes no difference, but its leaching to the waterways from somewhere.

JohnChadwick

Haven't been on a huge amount of other people's farms but nonetheless I've still seen several cases where open tanks are either overflowing or have outlet pipes to let soiled water off into nearest stream/river.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055169#Comment_120055169

That is polution and should be reported to revelant authority and hefty fines make sure it is isolated cases but what has this to do with suckler cow reduction

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055169#Comment_120055169

I have been on a good few,including a 400 cow dairy farm on new years eve. I have not seen any farm around here in 20 years that is at that craic. That day is well over around here. Lagoons are nearly extinct about here too as lads are sick of emptying the amount of clean water that they catch.

I would be reluctant to report any neighbour but do realise that this type after carry on is what has us in the mess we are in now.

JohnChadwick

Point is that this activity must be frequent practice among suckler farms where the financial outlook doesn't allow investment in decent sheds and slurry storage to happen.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055558#Comment_120055558

Not in my experience either as most suckler men about here have nearly no soiled water as they don't feed on yards any more. Most soiled water arrives on dairy farms from collection yards at milking parlours about here.

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055558#Comment_120055558

that is a mighty accuasation there , not great to see farmers belittle fellow farmers

J.O. Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055169#Comment_120055169

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055558#Comment_120055558

You're basing this on the few cases you've seen it happen.

I can say I haven't been on a huge amount of other farms either but I haven't seen this practice. I don't feel qualified to say it never happens based on this though.

I don't know how you feel qualified to so emphatically say it must be frequent practice, it's damaging to suckler farmers with adequate slurry storage to post such claims on a public forum.

An overflowing slurry tank would have cattle standing in slurry, I'm not sure too many would leave cattle in that position for long (again not saying it never happens).

The overflow pipe I'm not sure who'd leave that where a visitor to the yard would easily see it either but that might explain why I haven't seen it.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055558#Comment_120055558

This has to be the dumbest statement i’ve read in a long time. The average Suckler herd has 17 cows, the average dairy herd has 105 afaik and you think Suckler farmers are the ones causing pollution. The dogs in the street know what the situation with slurry storage is on overstocked dairy farms, we all know it. This thing of Dairy farmers blaming Suckler farmers for the mess they’ve got themselves into is gone beyond a joke now.

Mooooo

Tbh both comments above blaming each sector isn't correct at all. There are good and bad, in terms of actors and situations in all walks of life. Best anyone can do is focus on your own show as best you can.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055928#Comment_120055928

Muck spreading not allowed until the 13th..

Who2

thats absolute muck you’re talking. I am around an awful lot of farms and overflowing dung stead’s and lagoons don’t happen or if they do it’s an extreme rarity.

most suckler farmers are part time now as well and usually pump more money than they should into keeping their yards and farms in top condition.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055928#Comment_120055928

That's it tanko. One sector against the other. That'll help everyone.

Base price

Minister McConalogue has ruled out any reduction scheme for the beef herd. What I cannot understand is why they think slaughtering cattle at a younger age is beneficial to climate change - afaik the only way to achieve that is the use of hormone implants in conjunction with and/or a intensive concentrate heavy 100 day feeding regime.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/beef-herd-reduction-scheme-off-the-table-mcconalogue/

Rusheseverywhere

I am a suckler farmer and a cow reduction scheme was kinda nuts. Cull cows are a great price if you want out get out and if not stay in. Larger or better set up spots will prob go to dairy; thinking that way myself just the costs are high and I have mixed land. Suckler herd reduce naturally as alot of old boys at it who are well in their seventies when they go the cows will go.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120091203#Comment_120091203

The government lack imagination.

Possibly the most pressing concerns on climate change are the need to shift to green energy and to encourage biodiversity.

Farmers would have an interest in both. I think most farmers appreciate nature and would be interested in fostering beneficial grass and plants that would not only encourage biodiversity but could be good for animal health and fix nitrogen

Farm buildings could be used for solar and I am sure a lot of farmers are interested in small scale wind turbines and maybe exporting slurry for anaerobic digestion.

alps

200 AD plants requiring 1000 acres to feed them won't leave much room for biodiversity.

They'll buy silage by the tonne, output and quality will be of the highest requirement...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120092691#Comment_120092691

They can maybe use food waste to feed them as well? 200 sounds fairly ambitious.

There was talks of a protein rich feed alternative to soya based on a pond algae there recently.