Why inheritance is the dirty secret of the middle classes – harder to talk about than sex

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959081#Comment_119959081

its not about me.

I'll try one last time:

What do you suggest a person do when they have a 75,000 inheritance tax bill when do not have the cash to pay and can not dispose of the asset for whatever reason?

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959045#Comment_119959045

Now subtract the vat that was claimed back by the importer and distributor before it got to the final consumer

It's called "value added tax" - thats the bit you need to understand

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119958891#Comment_119958891

youre a great one for the loaded questions

those who amass wealth in property etc also work and pay taxes, they are not kept wives

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119958937#Comment_119958937

It wouldn’t be quite the issue it is if we actually had good services from our current taxes but we don’t - that’s the key issue here.

However neither FG/FF would have the balls to tax the super rich super high taxes on inheritance- it will be the people receiving small money in comparison that will be taxed the most - it’s always the not so well off that come out the worst in these situations - how about a 70% tax on inheritances over a value of 1 million euro? Never going to happen

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959045#Comment_119959045

Yes, you are correct, but earlier you suggested that 23% of expenditure is VAT.

Some people think that if the TV price is 1,000, then VAT is 230 of the 1,000.

Your example is good, if the TV sells for 1230, then VAT is 230 of the 1,230.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959020#Comment_119959020

While there are several taxes, as you say, here is another example, albeit an anecdote.

My parents earn 48-50k approx, combined income.

They pay 8% approx direct tax, a really, really low direct tax rate.

Particularly so when you consider they they receive:

two med cards

two FTP

free TV licence

35 pm / 420 pa off their elec bill

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119958507#Comment_119958507

What did they buy assets with in the first place?

Your view seems to be that people have somehow cheated in accumulating their wealth and are now cheating again by passing it on to their next of kin so this wealth needs to be redistributed.

StupidLikeAFox

I mean the other thing is that inheritance tax affects v few people. The median house price in the most expensive part of ireland dun-laoighre rathdown is €610k, leave that between two kids and there is no tax due at all

Geuze

I thought it was interesting when two men married each other to avoid CAT:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-straight-best-friends-marry-11739904

I wonder what the Revenue thought about it?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959088#Comment_119959088

If you explained why the person cannot dispose of the asset then perhaps someone could suggest a potential solution.

Else your question is just a version of "should a banker have to pay income tax on a 500k bonus if they can't pay it? How do you suggest that they pay it if they can't pay it?"

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959125#Comment_119959125

You want someone to be wealthy as a birthright based on the fact that their grandparents or great grandparents were wealthy or else bought or happened to fall into some assets which later became valuable largely due to investments by the State.

Ham_Sandwich

tax the rich its a no brainer

Dude, fking use punctuation.

Are the rich not being taxed?

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959067#Comment_119959067

I'm sure there are hard cases where people have no income or the ability to maintain the property. But at the end of the day, it's a large cash injection and you're not going to be worse off if you sell or rent out the property.

A 75k loan would be about 500 per month. You'd get much more than that in rent if you rented it out.

Probate and dealing with inheritance can be a difficult time, especially if siblings have different expectations or plans with what to do with shared assets. The 75k tax bill is only a very small proportion of the financial asset you'd be receiving

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959531#Comment_119959531

Makes no difference. You;'re just going to come up with whys and what ifs in order to void the obvious: you haven;t thought this through and you can't answer the question. You see asset value and think it's cash and that the person is automatiucally wealthy, and that fllacy. The fact that you're equating an inherited house to a someone's salary really is the QED.

Point proven again once again, I'm out - waste someone's else's time with your badly conceived ideas.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959597#Comment_119959597

Not really... the Irish rich are the real targets. Rich or poor, you decide.... our " rich" on 70-80k plus... LOL!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959690#Comment_119959690

Once again - IT IS NOT CASH! It might be able to be converted into cash - no guarantee - but it is NOT CASH!

I'm out with you too - while someone can not tell the difference between cash and asset value, there's no point arguing finance.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959745#Comment_119959745

You are hilarious. You have thought nothing through yourself even though it is your own situation 🤣

Just nonsensical guff.

The answer for you is to sell the house given that you will be too poor to raise 75k for it. Or, as poster said above, get a loan and rent out the house. You might be better off with the former as you aren't coming across as someone capable of basic logic or planning.

It won't make any difference to the outcome as given you can't raise 75k, you wouldn't be able to raise 550k to buy out your sibling. So either way you aren't going to be living in the house.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959470#Comment_119959470

Same with my parents. Corporation tax and middle income earners on 100k etc , hammered to pay for the easy ride for others. Way easier here than other european countries... the young are off their rocker of they plan on staying here ... **** minimum wage, outrageous cost of living, outrageous rent, if you do earn over 40k, you lose half of it, living in squalor, so others can love in europes most obscene welfare states, many in free luxury apartments...

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959755#Comment_119959755

You apparently don't understand the concept of "a loan" ???

Oscar_Madison

Tax avoidance-legal

tax evasion- illegal

It would more be the Civil Marriage laws you’d need to look at to see if any aspect of this law was breached- as it happens I think there was an investigation of sorts and nothing came of it-aside from obvious sham marriages to gain say citizenship, there’s really nothing to stop you marrying your same sex neighbour on your deathbed even though you’re heterosexual, so as to allow them inherit your wealth, thus avoiding many taxes, if that’s what your wishes are.

While it might make a “sham” of the institute of marriage it’s not illegal and near impossible to prove otherwise

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959525#Comment_119959525

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959557#Comment_119959557

Of course I do, one of the reasons people build wealth is to create a family legacy, it’s an act of love, family is a bigger priority to me when it comes to being generous than the state

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119957795#Comment_119957795

No, that’s not my position. My position couldn’t be any more simple - if anyone is liable for tax, pay the tax. If they don’t want to pay the tax, and they still maintain ownership of the asset, then they can explain to revenue that they’re not paying what they owe because they think it’s not fair. Revenue have heard all the excuses, and none of them wash.

They can sell their interest in the asset, and if they do it right, they can avoid paying Capital Aquisition Tax, and instead would only have to pay Capital Gains Tax on the difference between the valuation of the property at the time they inherited it, and the time they sold their interest in the property. That way they avoid paying any Inheritance tax at least, but that’s probably not what you were looking for -

Will You Have To Pay The Capital Gains Tax?

Capital gains tax is something you must pay when you sell an asset that has increased in value since the time you bought it. This means if you sell your home quickly enough after inheriting it, you may not need to pay capital gains tax, as the home’s value should not have changed.

https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/inheriting-a-house-with-siblings

You’re trying to make out you’d be caught in an awful bind if you inherit a property but don’t have the funds to pay any taxes due, but you want to maintain a share in ownership of the property. The obvious response is that you’re best to seek legal advice in that situation, because what you’re expecting you should be able to do is just not possible under Irish law.

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959755#Comment_119959755

I don't know what your original point was but you can pay the tax in installments, or revenue can postpone paying the tax if there is hardship involved.

In certain circumstances, it is possible to pay the tax by instalments over a period not exceeding 60 months. This applies to any property where the beneficiary does not have full and complete ownership.

It also applies if the benefit is full and complete ownership of the following:

Property which cannot be moved (for example, lands or a house) or

Property which can be moved and is agricultural or business property

Revenue can consider allowing a postponement of tax due if there is hardship involved.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959835#Comment_119959835

You fail to take into account that you would likely have much less today to leave were your rules to have been implemented.

There are many genuinely wealthy people in the country.

Bring back the absentee landlord says Mad_maxx!

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959864#Comment_119959864

Princess’ point is that they think it’s unfair that they may be liable for tax on an asset they inherit, they should be able to say to Revenue they don’t have the money, and continue to benefit from ownership of the asset. They could disclaim their inheritance too and they wouldn’t have to pay Inheritance tax, but they don’t want to have to do that either.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119957218#Comment_119957218

I think you have me confused with someone else. Just because I believe that inheritance is an anti-competitive inhibitor of productivity does not make me a 'commie'. That is a pretty lazy assumption, look a little below the surface, notice my obsession with competition. I work for a hedge fund, my base salary is higher than the Taoiseach's, nevermind bonus. How did I get here? Because of fantastic irish policy to provide free education and at least somewhat of an opportunity to compete with anyone through the CAO system, I was able to outperform people who received many benefits due to family wealth. It highlights a personal issue for me, how much talent is wasted because of poor allocation of opportunity due to social class/networking, grinds schools, private lessons, down payments, even food/security/attention and worst of all inheritance. Its anti-competition which ironically is also the greatest weakness of communism. We are lucky in this country because inequality is not as pronounced as elsewhere but its still a huge problem. If you want to improve the output of the country in aggregate and you want to increase innovation and improve the quality of life for all people, we need to do away with these unmerited head starts like inheritance, which are not earned but are randomly allocated through the happenstance of what family you were born in.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959597#Comment_119959597

this is an over simplification of the problem, common from some of us on the left, we generally store wealth in the valuation of assets such as property, stocks, shares, bonds etc etc, by maintaining our current trend, i.e. the continual drive to increase the value of assets, this is leading to the accumulation of the ownership of assets, towards older generations, hence away from younger generations. yes, asset owners, including myself, should be taxed more on the valuation of our assets, but most assets are under the ownership of large corporations, institutions, investment funds, etc etc, so taxation starts becoming extremely complex, as many of these entities are global in nature, and complexly intertwined, i.e. simplified slogans as such, are effectively meaningless.....

one potential way forward to try resolve these issues, is to use public resources in creating new public assets, including public property, and utilizing mechanisms such as sovereign wealth funds in attempting to redistribute the wealth created, probably wont happen though, our political institutions are not open to such ideas, the political left is atrocious in regards these ideas, theyve no clue about them, no understanding at all, so.....

Oscar_Madison

I think the thing harder to talk about for obvious reasons is the tax efficient disposal of your assets whilst you’re still alive- that’s a really hard conversation to have with the people who are intending to bequeath money or assets to you on their death, and have told you similar.

You can “gift” up to 3000 euro tax free to anyone annually - if you did that over 10 years, you’ve successfully gifted them 30k tax free - all totally legal.

I’ve had to bite my tongue on hearing aunts and uncles saying that they’re leaving their estate to one or two nieces or nephews, knowing just how much tax will go to the government and how this tax could be greatly reduced whilst they’re still alive.

A very difficult conversation to have- I think there should be a government guide produced around guidance on sharing wealth with loved ones, whilst protecting yourself overall, while you’re still alive

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119960130#Comment_119960130

im not sure anybody really knows what to do about the accumulation of wealth, and making sure everyone can live comfortably in trying to do so, but you can clearly see methods such as pension funds are now also in danger, due to the induced instabilities we ve created, complicated and messy stuff, but we better get cracking at trying to figure it out, or we could all end up fcuked!