teenagers no lights

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004445#Comment_120004445

Exactly my point. You've made no comments directly for or against the subject of the thread which was lights on bicycles and general enhanced visibility. There was however plenty of deflection talking about motorists. You don't need to apologise though. Just be safe and be seen when when you're out on 2 wheels. 🚲️

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006030#Comment_120006030

I didn't talk about motorists either. I don't know what your point is anymore. Not sure you do either. Anyway, I can't see anything constructive coming for continued posts

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006080#Comment_120006080

Well as a motorist I think we can knock this thread on the head by agreeing that teenagers on bikes in suburban settings with no lights attached to their bikes are unambiguously ubiquitous & obviously visible by all accounts on this thread.

There's been no evidence or even anecdotes of collisions or near misses, just clear accounts of ill lit teenagers on bikes being clearly spotted & noted with dark clothing on bikes including the OP that was inexplicably observant of them.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006030#Comment_120006030

None so blind as those who will not see.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006220#Comment_120006220

Great quote. Ironic too.

The article below illustrates what I have been saying. It's from just across the pond and demonstrates the attitudes that apparently only motorists seem to see from some cyclists.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/philip-pullman-is-right-cyclists-without-lights-are-hard-for-motorists-to-see-at-night-alastair-dalton-3462250

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004412#Comment_120004412

I’m saying the main focus should be on drivers, as they’re the ones killing two or three people each week, mostly other drivers and passengers.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120003964#Comment_120003964

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120004016#Comment_120004016

Last time I looked at the data, 16 out of 18 cyclist deaths over a year were in daylight.

Its almost as if some people choose to make lots of noise about insignificant things and stay remarkably quiet about the very significant things.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006455#Comment_120006455

Just to give some context to the single example of a cyclist death given in the article, motorists kill 5 or 6 people each day in the UK, mostly other drivers and passengers.

But those deaths don’t get headline articles, because we’ve built up attention immunity to those deaths.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006030#Comment_120006030

MOD VOICE: Everyone was warned, changing the word reflective for enhanced visibility isn't cleverly getting around something. Take a holiday from this thread, any issues we can discuss via PM.

Flinty997

MOD VOiCE: the poster you are quoting cannot respond

MyDarkArts

It's a well know fact that the most visible thing on the roads is a cyclist doing something they shouldn't.

magicbastarder

speaking of lighting, i read an article in new scientist probably a coulple of decades ago which might suggest that a lot of our street lighting is not as well designed as it should be. in that, if you can see the actual light coming from the bulb, from a streetlight from more than Xm away, it's inefficient and and bad for your night adjusted vision.

i.e. the light you should see should be the light that's bouncing off the objects the bulb is illuminating, rather than the light coming directly from the bulb itself; if it's spilling out sideways too much, that's wasted light, but also the more point sources you see in your field of view, the the darker the rest of the scene will be as your eyes will adjust for the point sources more than they should be doing.

Flinty997

If teens without lights is causing a significant safety issue then they're should be stats on that. The stats would drive greater enforcement by the Garda.

MojoMaker

As we've concluded from this thread, teenagers without lights in urban areas (a) aren't particularly difficult to see, and (b) aren't really a problem.

But this behaviour does irk a lot of motorists who do use it as a means to spout quite a bit of whataboutery in order to conveniently gloss over other, and more directly relevant, contributions to accident stats on the part of the vehicle-driving general public.

Teenagers without lights on bikes for many decades. Smart phones and digital displays in vehicles.....much more recent.

Flinty997

I think looking at the cycling accident stats makes it's own case as to how much of priority it should or shouldn't be. You don't need to refer to drivers at all.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007215#Comment_120007215

How can we not refer to car drivers when talking about prioritising dangers to cyclist?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008385#Comment_120008385

The accident stats.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008393#Comment_120008393

What do the accident stats tell us when it comes to cause of most cyclist deaths and injuries?

Don't deflect, just answer truthfully please.

Cabaal

Here we are again, people dead set on claiming there is some crisis but there's no data to support the claim.

Just a case of "I saw some without lights", all the while ignoring the far, far bigger dangers on our roads motorists speeding, motorists using phones and motorists being distracted by infotainment systems. But I suppose its easier blame teenagers on bikes.

Flinty997

The stats don't indicate there's a crisis with teens not having lights.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008431#Comment_120008431

OK. I get you now. I guess I'm like the motorists here going on about the unmentionable. I can't help but look in the direction of the big danger to cyclists and that's careless and sometimes malicious drivers.

It would be fantastic if they noticed the ones injured & killed in broad daylight like they do the teens at night time.

CramCycle

As a motorist I have to say cyclists without lights annoys the f*CK out of me. Nothing to do with being a teenager. There are a variety of reasons why but to the best of my knowledge I've always seem them. I suspect it's a mixture of reasons. One it's a stone to beat other cyclists with. Secondly, not an idiot, it doesn't matter what the requirements about speed and attention are, alot dont meet one or the other and I'd rather not come across an accident. Lastly, when an accident happens, me pontificating on boards that I would have seen them makes no difference, and regrettably, it just gives people a stick to beat cyclists with. Doesn't matter that the numbers are a minority, or that more motorists by number do the same. Somehow, that teenager on a pavement in a well lit urban area means that Pat Kenny and a surprising amount of boards users can get away with referring to the behaviour as if it's the large majority of cyclists and that somehow it's a reasonable excuse to treat me, who has lights, as sub human.

I say this as someone who has had pedestrians fall out in front of me, cyclists without lights cycle on the same roadway and motorists pull in without indicating. It's almost as if my parents were right when they told me to expect the unexpected, except the unexpected was ironic, as I always expect it.

Flinty997

It's annoying for sure.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008804#Comment_120008804

The best response to anyone using the behaviour of some cyclists as a stick to beat cyclists in general is to point out that there is no collective responsibility on the road.