Can someone be legally compelled to do their job?

Ginger83

I had a situation (resolved now) where I had a lot of problems with a builder. I contacted building control about the issues as there was multiple breaches of building regulations however building control declined to inspect. They said "with the best of intentions we must decline to inspect as it would be unpalatable to all concerned".

Would it have been possible to legally compel them to do their job? I would have buried the cowboy builder with their report.

Jim_Hodge

Impossible to comment without the full story. I'm sure they'd say they had valid reasons.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985071#Comment_119985071

What valid reason would a building control authority have for not inspecting breaches of building regulations. It is their duty to enforce building regulations.

Could a solicitor legally compel them to do their job?

Mongfinder General

As a general observation - if there’s a way for a state/semi state body to sidestep taking action on a problematic issue, they will do so. And there usually is a way.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985101#Comment_119985101

Thanks for your comment. I understand what you are saying but I'm wondering if they would be legally obliged to inspect?

Wildly Boaring

Well you see you see in building control's world you, as the owner, would also be liable for an enforcement notice..... Hence unpalatable to all concerned

Was there a commencement notice? What type?

Still stihl waters 3

Why don't you pay an independent consultant to do a report for you

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985127#Comment_119985127

That's true and they did say that but I accepted that and asked them to inspect but they declined. They were helpful in the end and things got resolved but it let the builder off the hook.

Your point would insinuate that the building control authority has no power then.

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985169#Comment_119985169

No they have loads of power and were protecting you from yourself.

If they came out and found serious breaches you could be in as much bother as the builder. This is how the building regs work. The owner and the builder are responsible.

Was there a commencement notice?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985144#Comment_119985144

I did but the builder said that he didn't agree so I sent the report to the building control authority and requested an inspection.

It was my intention to proceed legally with the Building Control Authority report but a resolution was agreed.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985192#Comment_119985192

A commencement notice? It was a home adaptation grant.

It's resolved now but I wondered what might have been.

growleaves

No but you can get Roy Keane to come out, look at them in befuddlement and say "But its your job".

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985463#Comment_119985463

lol. Another poster said they've loads of power but it seems that they don't want to use this power so why do they exist

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985096#Comment_119985096

You own a building that is not in compliance and you report yourself to the authorities….. and then you expect them to take action against whom exactly??? The result will be the property owner! You hired a building contractor that failed to deliver on his contract with you, it’s up to you to sort your mess out.

So it’s the house owners fault of a builder messes up a job? If this is the law, it’s an ass. It’s like the concept of blaming the patient when a doctor messes up. 🤷‍♀️

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985516#Comment_119985516

Thanks for your reply. You are correct however this situation was slightly different. It was grant work that the council paid for. The builder wasn't willing to put things right so I contacted the building control authority with the intention of using them to force the builder to fix. They said they would have to prosecute me which I accepted but they would have been prosecuting someone for work that they had effectively signed off and paid for so a resolution was found.

My question is could they be compelled to inspect via solicitor or maybe court order?

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985446#Comment_119985446

Yes. You as the owner, should have lodged a commencement notice for the works.

You can opt out of BCAR for home adaptation, may even be short form notice, but you should have put in a notice.

Not putting in a notice cannot be regularised after the fact. So the works might have to be demolished.

Also as above the owner can be in trouble along with the builder for non conforming works.

This is why you should engage a professional on your behalf when doing building works.

As I keep saying BC were doing you a favour by staying out of it.

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985524#Comment_119985524

No. A builder is liable for their poor work.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985524#Comment_119985524

Yes unfortunately a builder can just walk away

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985566#Comment_119985566

Just checked and yes commencement notice sent in. You can opt out but you are still obliged to comply with building regulations.

I did engage what I believed was a professional even though building regulations were breached during construction and when the builder did repairs. They even said they couldn't give an invoice because I didn't pay vat even though they charged me vat.

Building Control didn't stay out of it. They organised the resolution.

Wildly Boaring

Building Control didn't stay out of it. They organised the resolution.

That would have been handy in the OP

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985645#Comment_119985645

Sorry I didn't want to get into it. I just wondered if push came to shove could I have gotten a solicitor or some sort of court order to force an inspection.

Building Control organised a second home adaptation grant and eight weeks in a hotel while the work was demolished and rebuilt so the taxpayer footed the bill. I wasn't happy with this route as I wanted to bury the cowboy builder

chunkylover4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985675#Comment_119985675

You could seek an injunction but assumedly damages are an adequate remedy unless there is an imminent danger that couldn't be resolved in any other way.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985697#Comment_119985697

What would that do? Would it force a building control inspection?

I'm just rethinking what routes I could have taken. It sickens me that the conman builder got away scot free, well apart from the reputation damage

joeguevara

The answer to the question would be determined by the classification of the person as an employee: contractor etc.

As it appears to be a builder, are they full contract signer or a single v contractor. Then you need to look at the contract and specifically the severance section and the dispute resolution section. Most construction contracts have an arbitration clause and disapply court save for limited circumstances. You then need to look at the reliefs allowed under the contracts any exceptions or get out clayses

there Nat we’ll be a specific performance where relief is granted they may be compelled to complete or if the arbitrator compensation for non completion. Usually the other side would argue a break down in relationship meaning impossible to continental there may be milestones from third party needed or a common one is reassment of costs due to price increase.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985740#Comment_119985740

There was no detailed signed contract like building a house but it's fairly straightforward. I employed a builder to do work and they breached multiple building regulations. I let them back to do repairs and they breached more building regulations. Building Control who are supposed to enforce regulations would not inspect and just threw public money at the problem.

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985789#Comment_119985789

It is Important to determine how you employed them in order to ascertain what dutymof care they have and what obligations there is. Was there a terms of business, reference to a standard template conditions. The more informal the relationship the less likely of resolution. And Ir scope Of work isn’t agreed it’s a task the, to compel them after the fact

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985843#Comment_119985843

Any builder must comply with minimum building regulations by law regardless of what contract was in place. My builder did not. The building control authority is a department of the council and they were faced with prosecuting a sick person for work that their council had signed off and paid for which resulted in a resolution. Unfortunately situations like this allow builders to cut corners due to lack of regulation. There appears to be very little accountability or recourse in construction.

chunkylover4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985789#Comment_119985789

You could seek a building control inspection but again, the cost would not be worth it vs what did occur.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985859#Comment_119985859

but building control refused to inspect at the time and that's why I asked if I could legally force them to inspect

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985865#Comment_119985865

Building control are only obligated to inspect once complete . If not complete you can’t compel them to inspect. Now it get tricky it up you don’t have a contract with the builder because without it there is no enforceable obligaton , you could seek enforcement from building control to remove offending works but without any contract you would have to remove them ,

joeguevara

This us a pretty good summary of the building control enforcement obligations https://mcmahonsolicitors.ie/building-control-overview/

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058275444/can-someone-be-legally-compelled-to-do-their-job

Am I reading it correctly that, you called building control on yourself?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985096#Comment_119985096

In is there job to enforce building regulations. But that is does not extend to performing project progress inspections or contract administration.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985524#Comment_119985524

If a building is not compliant. The fault lies with the builder, the certifier and the owner or developer. The split of that liability depends on how the work came about and what the noncompliant is.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985858#Comment_119985858

This is incorrect. Building control do not inspect the builders work, they inspect your development works. If it is in breech, you are in breech. If that beech is due to the builders corner cutting, then it's up to you to bring action against the builder. The fact you didn't have a contract in place may have made that hard. Building control did you a favour as other have said.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058275444/can-someone-be-legally-compelled-to-do-their-job

was it just you and the builder involved or did you have an engineer/architect etc retained too?

if it was just you and the builder then by cutting the cost of a construction professional to oversee the works you can leave yourself open to these sorts of problems potentially.

if you had an engineer etc, supervising the build then they should have been working alot of that out

might i ask why the builder was not terminated during construction if the works were so obviously not in accordance with regs? can you give examples of what was wrong also?

joeguevara

Did you have an architect? They. May have administered a cert. How did ye agree price? Did you receive docs to ensue paperwork in order?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985958#Comment_119985958

Yes I called the building control authority and reported the builder for breaches of building regulations both during construction and when I gave them the opportunity to put things right.

The building control authority told me that they were in the most awkward position that they were obliged to prosecute me. A builder was employed to carry out grant works and was paid by their council. I told building control to come ahead and that I'd have the kettle on. They found out that their council had paid for the work and it had been signed off without being inspected. They declined to inspect and I was compensated with a new grant and eight weeks in a hotel with the bill paid. The work was demolished and rebuilt by another contractor.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985959#Comment_119985959

It is the responsibility of the building control authority to inspect breaches of building regulations and enforce building regulations. I accepted that I was in breech and informed them of this and that I was willing to accept the prosecution. I'm a terminally ill person sitting at home in a wheelchair, after four winters sleeping on my sofa due to an uninhabitable extension a prosecution wasn't going to make the blindest bit of difference to me. The only thing that it would have done was help me (which it did) and expose a conman

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986725#Comment_119986725

a prosecution also would have not have got the works redone to the required standard.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985967#Comment_119985967

Hi unfortunately my mistake was trusting a builder. I was coming to terms with a terminal diagnosis at the time and left my trust in the builder. The builder used this to take advantage of the situation.

I noticed a few things during construction like windows being left out but I put it down to general errors. It was only in winter after construction that I realised I couldn't heat it. I got a thermal imaging test done which showed massive heat loss. It was found that there was no insulation in the roof and all the radiators were undersized. The builder did repairs but the repairs breached further building regulations.

I brought in a building surveyor and structural engineer to check everything and they said whoever built this thought I'd be dead. I'll check the breaches and let you know.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986734#Comment_119986734

It would have forced the builder's hand as they would have been prosecuted also.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986821#Comment_119986821

you wanted the builder who built it improperly in the first place to build it again? Planning enforcement did the right thing by you. you got the work redone properly and to code.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119985524#Comment_119985524

The builder is working for the house owner. The house owner is given a grant to cover the cost, but the contract is still between the house owner and the builder. If the builder doesn't do the work, it is up to the house owner to sue the builder, the same enforcement mechanism as anyone has when engaging a private contractor.

In terms of building control, the legislation is fairly weak, and Building Control officers have said in the past that on the rare occasions that they do take a case to Court, they rarely get support from the judges.

On the broader issue of getting public bodies to carry out particular functions, you can try escalating to senior management, or to the Board or Councillors (for a local authority). You can make a complaint to the Ombudsman if they failed to do something, though that's often a fairly fruitless route. I would suggest it would be fruitless in this case.

I'm amazed to hear that an LA get directly involved, AND covered hotel costs. Maybe they saw an exceptional need in your case, or maybe they were terrified of you getting onto Joe Duffy, who knows.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986821#Comment_119986821

Even if that's correct - and I'm not sure that it is - that wouldn't have got the works done either. For that, you need to sue the builder and prove that, under the terms of your contract with them, they had an obligation owed to you to complete the works in conformity with the building requirements. If the lack of a written contract gives you problems here, having the builder prosecuted wouldn't solve those problems.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986890#Comment_119986890

That's why I don't believe the Building Control Authority have much power at all. You can't say that they'll prosecute the home owner if a home owner produces evidence of breaches of building regulations and they refuse to inspect. It's almost comical.

The council were very much involved. I had produced evidence that they signed off the work without checking it raising it's own questions. The council had my care team in contact about the situation. A large charity made contact with DIY SOS Ireland to see if they could help. 3 TDs got involved, 1 discussed the problems in the Dail which was live on tv. The local paper contacted me and got involved. The builder made a comment through their solicitor. The paper never named the builder but ran a story and hasn't done them any favours. This is public money after all.

We're way off topic sorry.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119986876#Comment_119986876

The builder had breached building regulations during construction.

I allowed them to carry out repairs and they breached building regulations again with a dicky up.

There is no way I would have agreed to allow them in again. They are the pillar of their community doing work for the church, name on gaa jerseys but they are conmen and so many people have contacted me since about their own problems with them. The builder gets very little local work only people unknown to them. The locals call them "the gypsy (builder's name)"

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987093#Comment_119987093

your remedy for your issues with the builder was taking the builder to court. you getting prosecuted for breaching building regulations would not help you.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987115#Comment_119987115

This is where the situation got sticky as I was informed that I didn't have the life expectancy to wait for the legal process and the builder knew this. I needed to use what was built so a solution had to be found.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987161#Comment_119987161

Planning enforcement did the right thing. Them doing an inspection would not have helped you in any way.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987178#Comment_119987178

It would have confirmed and proved non compliance with building regulations which the builder was denying.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119987202#Comment_119987202

and how would that have helped you?