Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483366#Comment_122483366

some might say unlucky. ..

you do have a strange fixation with Nazi Germany. Nazi germany is long gone. Time to move on.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484165#Comment_122484165

Why would that be unlucky? Please explain?

I don’t mean to hit a nerve, many people are not aware of their moral judgement or misjudgment.

I suppose it’s the same fixation people have of buying a Tesla and musk coming free in the passenger seat. Time to move on from that notion it seems too.

Bobson Dugnutt

Elon Musk is more damaging to the brand than some Tesla car owners.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484293#Comment_122484293

Unlucky because it displays a lack of moral compass..

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484336#Comment_122484336

No point having a moral compass (or at least protray that online) if you only pick and choose what morals to keep in check.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483994#Comment_122483994

There are three big private automakers in China, Great Wall, Geely, and BYD. Bit strange to pick on one of the none state operators instead of one of the state-owned ones such as SAIC.

I don't think we should expect consumers to go through a full know-you-car process to identify the beneficial ownership of the company you're buying your car from. Knowing that Elon Musk owns 13% of Tesla, vs Warren Buffet owning 8% of BYD, or that the Ferdinand-Porsche family own 53% of VAG doesn't come into many peoples purchasing decisions.

As a very public CEO of Tesla Elon Musk is driving people away from the brand, apparently, it's not enough yet for shareholders to oust him. Maybe that will change.

crl84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484165#Comment_122484165

«mod note: snip, please read the mod note in post #1»

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122483994#Comment_122483994

Righteous ?

I suppose here's the thing and I've been fairly clear on this before.

I don't unless you do have record of the BYD ceo buying an entire social media platform to dictate the level and sway of public sentiment and speech in my country or Europe, or the UK or America. If this was the case then I wouldn't have bought one. I guess I care enough about the direction of politics and impact in my day to day life and the spaces around me to take this stance.

As soon as you can tell my BYD buys tik tok and starts flooding that platform with fake racism accounts with false news stories and impacting our countries politics and norms which we know please ping me il be all ears. Until then put the false equivalence down.

I understand some people simply don't care at all. But the very real reality Elon and his site and those individuals he promotes are actively burning buildings in this country and the UK right now. Pretending that there isn't an equation to these events and origins is particularly putting your head in the sand.

It impacts us all in real terms and not this crapola about the origins of bmw or vw 90 years ago...

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484632#Comment_122484632

It’s ok to call it crapola when it doesn’t suit the argument. People can’t be critical of a ceo of one brand and then waltz off buying another brand citing morals or any of that BS, when that brand/CEO done similar sh1t. Hypocritical is all that is.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484656#Comment_122484656

It's crapola your talking about world war 2. I don't mean to question your intelligence but you weren't born. Neither probably were your parents . The equivalence is incredibly bizarre.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484656#Comment_122484656

Wait I want to add to that. What has the bmw or vw ceo done that's equivalent? Can you give examples like now

listermint

Actually no don't bother me you and musk have had it as a subject. Whenever he comes up you're right here defending him and then doing a merry dance of prove it. It's tiring. Please don't bother it'll be the same tired argument you have. Meanwhile this week musk has raised the spectre of getting twitter banned in the UK because of his role it inciting violence. Yet you'll pretend like you haven't a clue about any of it. Your words btw.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484669#Comment_122484669

You have no need to question my intelligence. It doesn’t come into the equation.

It’s about why I can’t post to another poster the origins of his/her car choice (VW I believe) while lambasting another company over the actions of that companies CEO and its crapola in your opinion just because it’s in the past. Either have morals or don’t, but said poster should not question my morals on thread while carrying out the above.

Bobson Dugnutt

Elon Musk is a dislikable cockwart and lots of people don’t want to buy a Tesla because they are intrinsically linked with him and his appalling views/lifestyle etc.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484693#Comment_122484693

Here you are commenting extensively about equivalence with every post. Whilst at the same time claiming to have no notion of musks activities at all. Its a beautifully ridiculous standpoint frankly.

What's more is your saying like your proud of not knowing what he gets up to. So I don't even know why you'd bother pointing at any other CEOs without that context.

You can surely see how silly that is.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484698#Comment_122484698

When I see a Tesla on the road, musk is not what comes to mind. Maybe that’s an issue with your own persona.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484707#Comment_122484707

You are misrepresenting posts again. I never once said I am proud. I do t follow the man. I learn more about his actions on this site than I do from my socials which are restricted to specific interest groups.

And again, ridiculous to you because others are not in agreement. Different view point and different stance. Get used to it.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484656#Comment_122484656

The question, as always, isn't the moral implications of one car brand over another, but whether Elon is hurting Tesla in particular with his public comments and (mis)management of the company

Whataboutism is beside the point, there seems to be some degree of brand damage being done by Elon whether you agree with people's reasoning or not

If you'd like, we can open another thread to discuss the moral implications of various EV purchases. Not sure @liamog will be too enthusiastic about modding that thread though 😉

Bobson Dugnutt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484784#Comment_122484784

It’s not what I think when I see a Tesla. I think fairly dated US style sedan tbh. But if I was thinking about buying an EV then the link between Musk and Tesla would influence my decision as well.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484802#Comment_122484802

I agree. Thread is 2 years old. Has he started hurting them yet?

I’m not questioning people’s decisions. That personal and completely logical. I’m questioning people questioning my moral compass while doing the very same. That makes the mind boggle.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484869#Comment_122484869

Then you get accused of whataboutery 🤦‍♂️🤣

Musks actions must be having a negative impact at this stage though.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122484869#Comment_122484869

Share price down

Profits down

Sales down, production slowed

CT failed every target

New battery cells failed every target

Model 2 cancelled in favour of some BS robotaxi

FSD further away than ever

Optimus can dance but do feck all else

I think that counts as pain. I'll admit not everything is directly attributable to Elon, however his management and decisions over the past few years don't seem to have helped at all

Maybe he's playing 4D chess, but his decisions don't make sense to me and they don't seem to make sense to anyone else here

As I've said I'm pretty sure his main objective with Tesla is to keep the share price high to fund his other companies and political lobbying. That kind of approach tends to be bad for companies long term

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122485083#Comment_122485083

Many shares are down and profits had to come down and will come down even further in line with many other legacy car manufacturers. They were always very high compared to them.

In the case of his side hustles, Tesla cars should be split from the “pet projects”, or let him use his own money.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122485083#Comment_122485083

don’t forget the solar roof they launched …..

The SEMI seems to be taking a long time to move in numbers , competitions are churning out E-trucks

and remember the roadster 2 that was due out in 2014?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122485253#Comment_122485253

That was mega expensive from what I’ve read up on. And only made sense for people doing a new build or re-roof. Idea is good but cost not there. Easier to install PV Panels.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122485164#Comment_122485164

Yeah that's why I wouldn't fully attribute it to Elon

He did sell a whole load of shares to buy Twitter, then said he wouldn't sell more and proceeded to sell more

That certainly earned the ire of some shareholders, but my view is that if you pay a CEO mostly in shares then you can expect this kind of behaviour

The bit which is really shocking IMO is how he diverts resources away from Tesla to other companies. There were reports that he had a bunch of senior Tesla engineers working in Twitter shortly after buying it

I dunno about others but my employment contract is pretty clear that working for another enterprise on company time is a firing offence

Also you'd assume that Tesla would want those engineers working on stuff that's Tesla related, or at least making a nice but if cash if they're getting hired out

There was also the case where Elon diverted a load of Nvidia chips from Tesla to Twitter because Tesla "wasn't ready" for them. Plenty of tech companies have had hardware delivered way before it was needed to avoid a shortage

And let's not forget his threat to the shareholders to divert investment to xAI instead of Tesla

On top of that there's just the general absenteeism and clowning around

Like I said, he doesn't seem to be delivering much value to the company at the moment. You'd think the board would be shopping around for a cheaper CEO in that case

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122485379#Comment_122485379

Genuine question, if he is so bad to the company, why haven't they got rid of him?

Contract? Can they? Legal reasons?

The Helpful Engineer

I try to buy EU cars if possible, it's a big purchase and we need to support our own market first.

I used to like Elon, but a few years ago I read a bio book about him which put me right off him, he doesnt seem to be a nice person at all. But to answer the question, yes I would be less inclined to buy a Telsa after the last few weeks of Elons outbursts.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122485394#Comment_122485394

They'd need a majority of shareholders to do that. Elon controls 20% roughly and presumably isn't going to vote himself out, so you only have 80% of the votes to work with

He's also got a bunch of people on the board who are loyal to him, including his brother and also Larry Ellison. They're also large shareholders so you can't really count on their support

Apparently the biggest shareholders are investment companies like BlackRock. They're in it for one thing, make a profit on the share price. As long as the line goes up, they'll stay on his side

This is likely what was partly behind the big round of layoffs he instigated recently. His pay package was up for a shareholder vote, he needed to get investors on his side and layoffs generally boost the share price in the short term

I've heard a great term for this, the rot economy. It's when a company will do a lot of actions that harm it in the long run to achieve short term growth. Great example of this would be cancelling a bunch of long term projects or firing the whole supercharger team. Share buybacks are another great example of this BS

I'd recommend reading about a guy named Jack Welch. He was the CEO of GE during the 80s and 90s and was mostly responsible for massive layoffs, moving manufacturing to China and turning the company from a global leader in domestic and industrial products to a poorly regulated bank which bet heavily on bad loans. He was also responsible for GE needing a massive bailout during the financial crisis

Nevertheless some people worship him thinking he's the greatest CEO of all time for his growth fixated mindset and his view of employees as a cost rather than a resource

Elon, like a lot of the tech industry, seems to subscribe to a similar way of thinking that share price growth is the only metric that matters and must be prioritised above any kind of sensible business model

It's quite disappointing in particular because up until around 2020 he was quite focused on building up Tesla as a manufacturing company and took immense risks and endured years of unprofitability. There were plenty of short sellers saying the company was doomed and traditional manufactures were laughing at Tesla. Nevertheless, he did manage to steer the company to where it is today

Unfortunately he seems to have lost his way significantly. I think ELM said it earlier that he's surrounded himself with yes men and has gotten high on his own kool aid. I'm included to agree with that assessment

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122485394#Comment_122485394

He has the board filled with his own personal appointees. All of this information is freely available on the net.

He also choses to be paid in shares the explicit purpose is to leverage those shares for loans from banks so he lives off the loans and pays no income tax.

Fairly canny.

The 58 billion salary in shares was laughable tbh. One of the highlights of his ohnoxiousness.