Yellow Box Junctions at the End of Bus Lanes?!

Electric Gypsy

I am a bus driver and I am wondering how many drivers are aware of these? I once had the guards go right through one of these when I'd my indicator on.

It seems a lot buses don't bother using them for this reason.

Spook_ie

The yellow box junctions at the end of bus lanes are yellow box junctions NOT yield to the bus junctions, if they blocked the junction then yeah you are right to complain but otherwise you are leaving a bus lane to join a traffic lane and the onus is on you to yield, no matter how daft it may seem to slow PT up.

walterking

Op needs retraining if they don't understand a basic yellow box.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002118#Comment_120002118

I suppose this also means that I'm not allowed to enter it in stationary traffic when it's clear... and that I have to wait for the traffic in front to start moving before I enter.

Also, what if I'm in the traffic lane just behind the junction, and a car from the bus lane tries to cut in in front of me? That happened once!

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002246#Comment_120002246

Well that's what I thought too... until I became a bus driver and someone basically told me that these were yield to bus junctions. I was always a bit sceptical about being told that... hence the thread.

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002827#Comment_120002827

What's a yield to bus junction? Can't find it in the rules of the road.

Plenty of reference to the yellow box junctions (free to enter as long as you can exit it without stopping).

https://www.garda.ie/en/crime/traffic-matters/rules_of_the_road.pdf

I've always thought they're there so that when traffic is stopped and queuing they leave a gap for a bus to exit its bus lane into traffic.

accensi0n

I always thought those yellow boxes were yellow boxes.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002827#Comment_120002827

That person needs to go back to training. And its always best to use something your can reference - rules of the road.

As you are coming our of an auxillary lane into the main line, you can enter the yellow box just as a car turning right is permitted to do at a traffic light junction.

The yellow box is there specifically to allow buses get into the main traffic line.

Possibly the person was telling you that you have the right to enter the yellow box when traffic is backed up - rather than say you have a right of way.

Here's the official wording

7.9.8 Where there is an identified issue of general traffic blocking the exit from a bus lane, a yellow box may be laid to provide a facility for buses to enter the general traffic stream (see also Figure 7.31). In this circumstance, the diagonal lines shall form an angle of 45º with the direction of travel.

https://assets.gov.ie/34719/d2683724881f4477bb2babe78c282e6f.pdf

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002807#Comment_120002807

No that's not what I said, if it's a box junction at the end of the bus lane then buses may enter it, similar to yellow boxes where you wish to turn right BUT other traffic is NOT permitted to block the yellow box.

Si332/2012

“Box junctions

29. (1) Subject to sub-article (2), where traffic sign number RRM 020 (yellow box) is provided on a public road or at a junction between one or more roads or at a junction between one or more roads and a light railway (whether the junctions are controlled by traffic sign number RTS 001, RTS 002, RTS 004 or RTS 013 (traffic lights), or otherwise) and notwithstanding any indication to the contrary that may be given by such traffic signs, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter, either partly or wholly, the cross-hatched area unless the vehicle can clear the area without stopping.

(2) Sub-article (1) does not apply where the driver of a vehicle intending to make a right hand turn at a junction enters the cross-hatched area for that purpose.

(3) Where traffic sign number RRM 020 is provided in a traffic lane at the end of an adjacent bus lane, where traffic sign number RUS 028 or traffic sign number RUS 029 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024 are provided, to facilitate the drivers of vehicles exiting the bus lane to enter the adjacent traffic lane, a driver of a vehicle, other than a driver of a vehicle that is exiting the bus lane, shall not enter, either partly or wholly, the cross-hatched area unless the vehicle can clear the area without stopping.

bikeman1

This worries me that bus drivers are unsure of the rules of the road. There are quite a few of these around.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120003735#Comment_120003735

If bus drivers in Dublin adhered to the rules of the road at all times (i.e. didn't barge their way out of bus stops, and didn't use the size of their vehicle to "encourage" traffic to yield at the end of pitiful bus lanes), there would be chaos. Every bus would run late, subsequent services would be curtailed or cancelled. Which is exactly why they should acquaint themselves with - and always adhere to - the rules of the road, regardless of how badly they're delayed by traffic. The only hope of fixing Dublin's appalling bus infrastructure is to highlight it. And there is no better way to shine a light on it than to always drive within the law.

That isn’t a yield to the bus lane - there’s nothing to indicate that at all! It’s only meant to create a gap to allow busses out in queuing traffic.

If you drive out into free flowing traffic there you’d be in the wrong and could cause an accident

If they wanted to create a priority for the bus lane there they would need to mark it.

In continental cities that priority is typically automatic because of a yield to traffic entering from the right (which would be the left here) general rule that is only not applicable where otherwise indicated by a yellow diamond sign at the beginning of fast moving roads.

brianc89

The real issue here is that lots of car drivers are a-holes and don't understand yellow boxes. They don't allow other users such as bus drivers to enter the yellow box once traffic starts moving.

Therefore the only way to get into the required lane is to move into the yellow box before you technically should. A bit of common sense and leeway needed here on a case by case basis.

ratracer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002827#Comment_120002827

Well this explains an awful lot, if that’s what bus driver instructors are wrongly teaching to new drivers!

WTF is a “yield to bus” lane???? I remember a bus driver say it to me once in anger, and this explains why he got even madder when I asked him , kinda politely ;). where did he pull that law from??

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005781#Comment_120005781

It may not be referenced as a "yield to bus" rule, but in many cases this is clearly the intended purpose.

Usher's quay for example:

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005781#Comment_120005781

Why would you not yield to a merging bus?

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005829#Comment_120005829

That's not yielding to a bus. The traffic queues in the lane to the right of the bus lane. The box is there to leave a gap so the bus can get out, as without the yellow box people would just queue alongside the bus and keep inching along as many drivers don't give a damn.

Yield means slow down to let somebody out. If traffic is not queueing then traffic can enter the yellow box as long as they can leave it without stopping (i.e. No yielding involved).

So yielding is at the discretion of the moving traffic in the middle lane same as every other yellow box. But when the traffic is stopping and starting the buses can get out.

ratracer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005897#Comment_120005897

I will always let a bus pull out, as long as it’s safe to do so, but if the lane is clear ahead of me I will continue to make progress. In this case, it is the bus that needs to slow up to change lanes when safe to do so, not me, but a lot of bus drivers don’t seem to understand that part of it.

Don’t even get me started on taxi’s!!!

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120005781#Comment_120005781

No one in this thread mentioned the term 'yield to bus lane'. Trying to even think about that makes my head hurt. Someone did say 'yield to bus junction'.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120003048#Comment_120003048

Okay, but what about my other question:

What if I'm in the middle lane just behind the junction, and a car from the bus lane (on left) asks to cut in in front of me? That happened once! So given that I am the bus, am I entitled to enter the yellow box junction when in stationary traffic?

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006302#Comment_120006302

Yeah but the bus is not legally allowed to touch that yellow box (in my example) until the traffic is moving again, hence requiring the bus to wait for traffic to start moving. At which point, the bus is at the mercy of cars letting the bus in.

In reality, the bus driver will drive into the yellow box before traffic ahead starts moving. This is illegal but is clearly the intended way this yellow box is supposed to be used.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120006983#Comment_120006983

If you're IN the middle lane, then you are no longer able to avail of the "Exiting a bus lane" exception as listed

a driver of a vehicle, other than a driver of a vehicle that is exiting the bus lane, shall not enter, either partly or wholly, the cross-hatched area unless the vehicle can clear the area without stopping.

Anyway the car shouldn't be in the bus lane, unless it's a taxi.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007584#Comment_120007584

In this case that car was only allowed to be in the bus lane if turning left... so it might have changed its mind and wanted to go right. But to go back to my question, would I not have been entitled to block that car entering? The bus is no longer able to avail of the box if in the middle lane, but as I know no other bus will be trying to enter it anyway, then should I not just cover it myself in future if already I'm in the middle lane??

timetogo1

Not sure why

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008029#Comment_120008029

You can enter them if you're turning right or are clear to exit it while going straight. Same rule for a car and a bus.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008090#Comment_120008090

That's already been clarified. If you can't answer the question I've asked another poster than don't post.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120007584#Comment_120007584

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008029#Comment_120008029

Absolutely not, it would mean you were deliberately breaking the box junction rule.

a driver of a vehicle, other than a driver of a vehicle that is exiting the bus lane, shall not enter, either partly or wholly, the cross-hatched area unless the vehicle can clear the area without stopping.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008663#Comment_120008663

Will you stop being so exact about it. I obviously get what you're saying, but still it's strange for me because the only time I recall leaving that exact junction free was that time that another car tried to take it. It's obviously not right that a car could skip ahead of all the other cars, and a bus. So in this case, being practical some would say two wrongs make a right.

And if the bus driver has to leave the car in, is it at least the sort of moment where the bus driver would roll their eyes??!!

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008623#Comment_120008623

So it's clarified but you asked it again. I don't get why you think there are different rules for buses.

Whatever the reason for the car driver getting ahead of you (if he was driving properly or breaking the rules himself) the rules for a yellow box don't change.

The standard for people who drive for a living seems terrible.

By the way Boards is a public message system (another thing you seem to not understand, I'm seeing a pattern).

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008701#Comment_120008701

If another driver wants to break the law, you shouldn't worry about it, your job is to worry about your passengers and hope that sometime a Gard spots him and decides to do something about it.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009097#Comment_120009097

You'd have something to complain about if I was driving erratically, but if I block such a junction no one will ever complain... or even notice!

I get that it's a public forum... just pointing out my irritation of you.

Spook_ie

The regulations around yellow box junctions are very exact (IMO), so not to be exact would be a failure to understand the regulation, which (rightly so) leaves yuou under the risk of being caught and fined by a Gard.

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009430#Comment_120009430

Not complaining. You asked about the rules and if there were exceptions when somebody drives in a way you didn't like.

We don't ignore the rules just because breaking them won't, apparently, affect anybody.

You could use the same reasoning for any rule. E.g. I'm at a red light with no other traffic, or people, in sight so if I go through it "no one will ever complain... or even notice".

No point getting irritated when somebody answers with an answer you don't like.

Wishbone Ash

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120008701#Comment_120008701

Why have you a problem with someone being 'exact'? You are the one looking for answers. The regulations have to be fairly tight otherwise they'd be open to debate/loopholes.

And why would you wish to block another driver from exiting the bus lane? if you believe they shouldn't be there you should be facilitating their exit to free up the bus lane.

I used to drive buses but never got bothered by others breaking the rules. It wasn't my job to police other drivers.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009457#Comment_120009457

In theory yes, but the risk of a Garda bothering their arse to prosecute this issue is fairly tiny.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120010768#Comment_120010768

Ah ha... someone who knows the rules but is also in touch with reality!

Electric Gypsy

@Wishbone Ash And why would you wish to block another driver from exiting the bus lane? if you believe they shouldn't be there you should be facilitating their exit to free up the bus lane.

No, he should be forced to move on so that he won't get a habit of being cheeky. And that's what happen when the other bus came up behind him.

Electric Gypsy

@timetogo1 Not complaining. You asked about the rules and if there were exceptions when somebody drives in a way you didn't like.

You said (based on my comments) that the standard of people who drive for a living seems terrible. That's what I took as a complaint. I was not implying that the answers were complaints. Nice try though!

@timetogo1 We don't ignore the rules just because breaking them won't, apparently, affect anybody.

What "we" are you referring to? Because in case you didn't realise, the vast majority of drivers don't seem to be aware of the boxes I refer to.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120009457#Comment_120009457

Ha! What planet are you living on? This isn't Britain where they've cameras on the boxes. There's a higher chance of hitting the lotto than being fined by a guard for being in the box junction. I'll take my chances and leave you to continue acting like a robot.

timetogo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120012007#Comment_120012007

The vast majority of drivers in this thread know what the yellow boxes are for.

There only seems to be one that is confused. You started off the thread complaining because a driver went through one correctly and get narky with anybody who doesnt agree with you.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120012023#Comment_120012023

Fine, you asked what the situation was, it has been explained to you.

You drive how you think you should and if that includes breaking traffic laws you should expect a day in court if you are involved in an accident when disregarding traffic law.

Brid Hegarty

A lot of road rage these days!

Electric Gypsy

@timetogo1 The vast majority of drivers in this thread know what the yellow boxes are for.

There's a big difference between knowing what yellow box junctions are for, and being "aware" of them!

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120013574#Comment_120013574

What's the difference, in your mind?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120012138#Comment_120012138

The only person who hasn't got a clue about the road markings and rules surrounding yellow boxes is a professional bus driver, to the complete surprise of absolutely nobody.

"If you're not gonna answer, don't bother".........quickly followed by......"why are you being so exact with your answers?????" is like something out of a schizophrenic nightmare. Both yellow boxes posted so far aren't even at junctions, FFS.

Electric Gypsy

Was at a particularly infamous yellow box junction today. A lady was completely on top of the junction in stopped traffic. So I pulled up in front of her and nudged the corner of the bus into the gap between her and some sort of road maintenance vehicle that was in front of her. The vehicle in front of her then moves left and goes into the bus lane and I move half of the bus in the junction. She beeps her horn at me. I then see her in my mirror getting out of the car. She then gets back into the car and walk towards the bus. She then turns around and gets back into the car... presumably because she realised she was in the junction only when she got out.

the boss of me

Lots of road users do things they shouldn't. YOU as a professional driver should make allowances and take these things in your stride. It's not your job to police or reprimand other road users. Take a chill pill and try to represent your company in a calm professional manner.

Electric Gypsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120035579#Comment_120035579

Yeah, I suppose. Anyway, did you ever hear the David Bowie song 'Boss of Me'??

StreetLight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120035579#Comment_120035579

The bus driver was being assertive. The car driver was aggressive. Big difference. If bus drivers weren't assertive, they would never get anywhere.

the boss of me

The line between aggressive and assertive can be blurred and as neither you nor I were there we can't definitively state what happened. However we can take it from lady drivers response that she considered it aggressive as she got out of her car to remonstrate with the busman.

These situations are easily avoided by taking a more relaxed approach. There's no point in having a hissy fit or getting "into it" with other road users. You'll only put stress on yourself. I let it go over my head always get there safely, relaxed and on time.