Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

Sam Russell · 02-07-2023 8:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120796897#Comment_120796897

Why would a UI make any difference to such a gathering?

Do the participants require policing? Are they that troublesome? Are they more unruly than the Electric Picnic?

downcow · 02-07-2023 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120796941#Comment_120796941

Every event requires policing, should it only be traffic management. Are you saying you would advise the guards would stay away from unionist events?

Fionn1952 · 02-07-2023 8:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120796897#Comment_120796897

The Newtownards Road is a very specific niche of society, Downcow. If I tried to claim rampant support across society and showed you a big crowd in Andytown, I'd imagine you'd call it out as non-representative and all.

Broader society has certainly weighed in with the grand total of 9 likes on the tweet though.

FrancieBrady · 02-07-2023 9:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120796897#Comment_120796897

Seeing twitter awash with footage of drunk young ones and sectarian chanting with the banners of the UVF and Soldier F at these parades. Even one where the bands start fighting with one another.

What all that has to do with the Somme escapes me but I agree with Fionn.

Long as you do it were it’s wanted, knock yourself out.

downcow · 02-07-2023 9:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120796957#Comment_120796957

Nonsense. I don’t know what problem northern nationalists have with accepting the marching band culture is going from strength to strength.

of course east Belfast was probably the biggest Somme parade yesterday, but it was one of over 100 across ni.

to suggest that big parades is a Belfast phenomenon, is just trying to mislead southerners.

you can’t get any more rural than Scarva (population 320). 80,000 people attended the last Scarva parade , and not a Belfast band in sight. Here’s a wee clip from Scarva. I have some personal knowledge of the second band in the clip (Pride of the Hill). It’s from a wee rural town near me (population 2467 and about 50/50). The band was forced to split in two ie POTH and POTH Old Boys as it had got so big. I note in the video POTH is up to nearly 100 members again and may need to split again. This little rural town has other marching bands forby incl pipes and accordions. I’m forced to post this as some would like southerners to believe all will be hunky dory in a Ui and the marching screen is on the way out

https://youtu.be/AMG638r0sb4

Ramasun · 02-07-2023 10:02pm

I understand that Sinn Fein is playing the long game now but they're not winning anyone over with their track record in government.

They don't sit in Westminister, fair enough, but they can't work with other political parties to form a government in two parliaments on the island of Ireland.

Wasted votes.

downcow · 02-07-2023 10:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797062#Comment_120797062

Twitter is a dangerous place to try and gauge what an event is like. Try asking those who go instead.

I believe there is an old historic video circulating on Twitter of a scuffle between two bands. It’s great that the detractors now have to search the archives to get negativity. Mind you here’s a very up to date video of a cultural event this weekend. I am prepared to think this is highly unusual

https://twitter.com/r4fcmuk7k8ihukz/status/1675520639057133570?s=46&t=clJwThzOwE6ATJJbtTfYjQ

Ramasun · 02-07-2023 10:05pm

Did the Orange guys start it?

FrancieBrady · 02-07-2023 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797253#Comment_120797253

Yes and those scenes are terrible and deserve condemnation by all in the GAA. They won’t be tolerated.

Not so multiple incidences of sectarian chanting and taunting displays of banners etc. at these parades year in year out.

Sam Russell · 02-07-2023 10:41pm

What has any of this chatter about sectarian parades and other such whataboutary got to do with this thread that should be about the cost of a UI?

Nothing.

downcow · 02-07-2023 11:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797352#Comment_120797352

I have looked back at op and it seems clear that by cost, you meant financial cost, so some of my points were around emotional cost and loss - so fair enough. Now that said, if a community feels loss and disregarded, then you are inevitably heading for significant security costs and tourism and investment hit. My point was that if OWC is recognised as different and given a fair degree of autonomy then you could head of problems which will have a serious detrimental effect on the economy

downcow · 02-07-2023 11:21pm

I think for some posters cost is not an issue, and I am interested how reflective that is for the country at large.

is there anyone who honestly thinks that you can remove the support of 80,000,000 people and billions of £s and the people of ni not be worse off financially

I think there are few in ni who think that, hence the polls

Fionn1952 · 03-07-2023 6:24am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797190#Comment_120797190

You start with, 'nonsense' and then go on to write a second paragraph that agrees with what I said completely.

The Newtownards Road is not representative of a typical event; you've just said yourself that it is the largest.

As for thinking it will be hunky dory in the event of a UI.....yes, I do think it will be absolutely hunky dory; I've no expectation whatsoever that marching culture will disappear and would argue in favour of increased funding for all but the sorts of bands who piss up against churches or march in circles playing sectarian songs outside them. I've mentioned before that I have family involved in marching bands; while I'd prefer a bit of rock and roll myself, I certainly appreciate it is an important part of your culture.

I actually think Scarva is a great example of what band culture could be when the Blood and Thunder of a lot of the 12th events is removed. Not my cup of tea, but I've not heard much in the ways of controversy around it and it does seem to be geared towards family.

None of this makes the Newtownards Road or indeed Scarva representative of typical event attendance; they're two of the largest in the calendar. You'd be top of the queue to call it out if someone was portraying an All Ireland final in Croker as a typical example of GAA attendance.

Fionn1952 · 03-07-2023 6:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797352#Comment_120797352

Now now, Sam.....don't be a hypocrite. Your last number of posts have hardly been about financials yourself.

There are costs beyond the financial, and it is important that these are addressed rather than ignored should Unification come to pass.

Sam Russell · 03-07-2023 9:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797824#Comment_120797824

I have tried in many posts to return this to financial and economic issues, but the barrage of whataboutery and 'you lot did xxxx a hundred or more years ago and we are still holding a grudge about it and you should apologise for it' type of posts.

I tend to call out the rubbish and nonsense, but get more rubbish and nonsense in reply. I understand why NI is such a dreadful sectarian cess pit of permanently hostile views and deep seated pointless anger directed at the other side.

Now these posts do not come from one side only, but they come from a very few posters on each side - repetitive and off topic.

Because this thread has gone so far off topic, the mods should either delete such off-topic posts or move them to another thread - not that I am trying to be a backseat mod.

downcow · 03-07-2023 11:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797823#Comment_120797823

Nonsense again. Either a misunderstanding or trying to paint a false picture for southerners. The Somme parade I originally posted is not one of the largest marching events. I said it was probably the largest Somme parades - why do you think it is referred to as a mini twelfth by most - the clue is in the word MINI. You want to try and create a Belfast centric image. eg the biggest twelfth this year will be in Lurgan, nowhere near Belfast and no Belfast bands attending. Nor will the biggest 11th fire, miles away in Larne, and afaik the biggest parade every year is in Londonderry, couldn’t be much further away from Belfast. Of course there will be 3,000 parades varying in size from 100 to 100,000, approx 30,000 band practices averaging 50 people, and numerous concerts and tattoos in the winter with thousands attending. So I agree this analysis of marching is off topic, I just wanted to challenge some nonsense, and I am not even going to start on the historic stuff you raise. My original related point was not off topic.

Sam Russell · 03-07-2023 12:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797474#Comment_120797474

Who are these 80 million people who support NI with billions of GB£s?

Why do you not realise the removal of the 450 million EU market will affect the NI economy more than the slight difficulty imposed of the 60 million GB market?

The NI electorate voted to remain in the EU, but of course the DUP keep saying that the view of the NI electorate does not count for much.

The whole of the UK are now feeling the loss of EU money for farming, disadvantaged area, fishing, etc. More budget cuts on the way for NI, and no Stormont to fight back.

Oh dear, what can be done? At least, there is the chance of a United Ireland to look forward to.

downcow · 03-07-2023 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120798816#Comment_120798816

The eu market has not been removed. GB is pumping billions into this place, surely you can’t deny that.

FrancieBrady · 03-07-2023 12:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120798816#Comment_120798816

The NI electorate voted to remain in the EU, but of course the DUP keep saying that the view of the NI electorate does not count for much.

New polling suggests the overwhelming majority see the dangers of not being in the EU.

Jeffrey can't stand in the UK parliament saying he speaks 'for the people of NI'...he speaks for less than 20%.

Needs to be challenged everytime he tries and if he wishes to shoot the messengers (A number of polls/elections have shown support for the WF) then the UK needs to ask the people formally in a vote.

Fionn1952 · 03-07-2023 12:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120798741#Comment_120798741

You're right, we're drifting off topic.

I'll highlight the key point for me is that I would continue to support funding for marching bands in a United Ireland, particularly those involved in events similar to Scarva. I don't for a second believe that some of the particularly offensive carry on (particularly in Belfast) is ubiquitous enough to be representative of your entire community, though nor do I believe turnouts of tens of thousands are typical for anything but a small handful of the largest events. To draw a comparison, there are an awful lot more events with junior club level attendances than county final attendances.

I would however also support the continuation of the Parades Commission to curtail events which are aimed at insulting/goading/are insensitive; this would include the recent attempts to reignite the controversy around Drumcree as much as it would an attempt to have a Provo commemoration in a spot they had planted a bomb.

(To keep Sam happy) I think the cost of funding bands and maintaining the parades commission would be relatively negligible, and would hopefully be seen as a gesture that your culture does indeed make up a valued part of the broader culture of the island.

Sam Russell · 03-07-2023 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120798853#Comment_120798853

The loss of freedom of movement for EU citizens is a loss. The requirement for EU and US tourists to have a visa to enter NI is a loss.

GB have stopped the pumping of funds. Of course, with Stormont closed, even the funds that have been sent cannot be spent.

Now there are reports that the UK Gov are likely to stop funding the NHS. That might soften a few coughs in NI.

jh79 · 03-07-2023 12:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120798883#Comment_120798883

Interesting that the majority in Ireland believe there won't be a UI within a decade. Up 7% from last time. 45% of those in NI believe there will be a UI within 10 years !