Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841117#Comment_120841117

I would suggest your 'Green' credentials are 'faux' blanch?

I have seen people fined here for having bonfires at Halloween. They were a yearly event less than 10 years ago, I haven't seen one in years locally.

Are we 'culturally' worse off? Nope.

satguy

Ireland at this time could not afford to assimilate NI,, and probably not in the next 25 years.

Huge numbers up there are in in recite of social assistance payments,, and we could never just pick up that bill. While the UK might offer to stump up big cash lump sums if we take NI off their hands, but I can never see us falling for that one.

The last hurdle to a United Ireland, is that there would need to be a referendum north and south,, and the outcome at this time or in the next 25 years would most likely be a NO..

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841126#Comment_120841126

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ujNkF-fbQI

Let's be clear, I am not defending Loyalists. All I am saying is that the burning of effigies is a common practice, happens all over the world, contemporary figures are burned.

I don't like bonfires in general, but the objections on here to 12th of July bonfires are sacrimonious at best.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841034#Comment_120841034

Francie I take it you mistakenly quoted me there as I was only quoting pereguins and agreeing with. It’s home said that burning by Kate would be a step forward)and I have never heard Kate say that there was no alternative to La Mon)

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841059#Comment_120841059

Francie the lady in black here pretty much sums up what sf, ably assisted by people like you on here, are doing. She hits the nail on the head

https://twitter.com/gbnews/status/1679083218702680065?s=46&t=B7SNgqZHuFeOltI4vRL4ng

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841126#Comment_120841126

….and surprising you have a problem with the burning of Michelle but not Kate. Interesting

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841175#Comment_120841175

You mustn't get out much at Halloween.

https://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-fire-brigade-halloween-calls-5907970-Nov2022/

Laughable hypocrisy from you, only objecting to 12th of July bonfires.

What about pagan ritual bonfires? Didn't see you posting numerous times about St. John's Eve?

As I said, I don't like bonfires generally, wouldn't attend one myself, but I see the objections to 12th of July bonfires from certain directions as nauseatingly hypocritical.

What about the bonfires that welcomed home Jerry McCabe's killers? Were they ok?

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/08/15/news/name-of-murdered-police-officer-displayed-on-republican-bonfire-2418769/

Hope we will see similar outrage on 15 August.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841149#Comment_120841149

Folks those of you who have a fanciful idea of a United ireland down the road, will have to get to grips with this. Singling out all the wrongdoings associated with unionist events and ignoring the wrongdoings of republican events won’t be a good look.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841257#Comment_120841257

So Dublin City Co are not enforcing the laws of the country? Is that all you have here?

I can tell you that locally to me, and fully supported by me, Halloween bonfires no longer take place because the law of the land is enforced.

This would be a law that the Green Party you support, would be fully in favour of and may indeed have instigated.

But you are able to put that Green tenet aside to 'not support' Loyalist hate filled bonfires of pallets and tyres and what ever other noxious materials these 'working class' heroes can gather.

An appalling stance really.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841298#Comment_120841298

Stop making up what you think I said.

Are you against kids having a bit of fun at Halloween with bonfires?

Edit: Up in Monaghan, the fire service give advice on how to hold bonfires.

https://www.northernsound.ie/news/monaghan-fire-service-remind-people-to-stay-safe-this-halloween-184005

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841246#Comment_120841246

Maybe it's my social media account but I am not seeing a single SF rep have any issue with the parades taking place today.

Nobody has an issue with respectful expression of your culture downcow. Parade away to your heart's content, as I have said over and over again.

The issues are around the espressions of hate, and triumphalism.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841316#Comment_120841316

I'm not making anything up.

You are doing your usual defensive thing on behalf of unacceptable behaviour of Unionists/Loyalists.

Defend them by pointing at themuns and then pretend you weren't doing it.

ittakestwo

https://twitter.com/moneillsf/status/1679094206713806848

I would not call MoN response as attacking orange culture but more attacking people guilty of hate crimes. Alot of these incidents are against UK law so I can see why people are annoyed they happen year after year.

Maybe Orange culture wouldn't get attacked on social media if there wasn't a reason to attack it? I have no problem with law abiding orange culture. I think it is a certain that should there be a UI the 12th would have to be a public holiday in the new state as it is culturally important to so many of us.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841913#Comment_120841913

I see some interesting responses to her tweet. George hits nail on head, but this one is also particularly good “I think flags and effigies should be left off bonfires but perhaps they think there is, "no alternative", Michelle.”

which do you think is most offensive francie. The self-declared ‘FM for all’ declaring that there was no alternative to torturing and murdering our loved ones, or people with no lofty office putting the flag they associate with their loss, on an annual bonfire?

to me there is no competition. Where are you on it?

#edit. Sorry I see now it was itakestwo posted that. Still interested in answers from whoever

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841255#Comment_120841255

You've gleaned this from my saying, 'I differentiate between someone who is alive now and someone who died 400 years ago' how exactly?

I think the burning of effigies of anyone alive or even within living memory is incredibly distasteful, be that MoN, Leo Varadkar, Kate Hoey, Boris Johnson or even Vladimir Putin. Adding nooses moves it from incredibly distasteful to threatening.

Care to clarify when exactly I mentioned anything that would remotely imply I'm OK with one and not the other?

downcow

Here’s a reflection from a nationalist attending one of the bigger fires last night. As a unionist it’s very hard to judge where most nationalists sit ie close to this guy or close to francie.

I guess as more and more nationalists come along for a first hand look, it can only improve nationalist’s perceptions of the 11th 12th and 13th

https://twitter.com/the_wee_doggie/status/1679112448631087104?s=46&t=CzpkuUj-24nmV7MEEcsSBA

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120841226#Comment_120841226

It's almost like a few hundred bonfires with numerous incidents happening every single year nearby to many posters is more significant than a one off incident in another country four years ago.

Lots of things that shouldn't happen do, it's only when SF disagree with it that you creep out of the woodwork to defend it, no matter what it is. I don't think you intend to defend Loyalists as such, it's just that your opinions tend to be 'if SF say it, I disagree', which just happens to align with hardline Loyalists.

If there was a lynching and SF spoke out against it, I'd almost expect to see you pointing to all the lynchings that happen across the world and accusing folk of being sanctimonious because they're not talking about events in the US post civil war as much.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842157#Comment_120842157

25 years after the GFA the burning of effigies/flags to taunt and threaten people is by far AND AWAY the most offensive.

Everybody has their narratives and views of the past that others find distatsteful

If you'd stop with the victimhood for two minutes and open your eyes you might see that. Also try reading and absorbing everything she said.

I think at the time there was no alternative. But now, thankfully, we have an alternative to conflict and that is the Good Friday Agreement and that’s why it’s so precious to us all.

My whole adult life has been about building the peace process.

I wish the conditions were never here that actually led to conflict. I wish that so many people didn’t have the horrible experience that they’ve had throughout the conflict days, that’s everyone's experience.

I think the only way we're ever going to build a better future is actually to understand that it's okay to have a different take on the past.

My narrative is a very different one to someone who's perhaps lost a loved one at the hands of republicans.

I think that we need to be mature enough to be able to say, ‘well that’s okay, we’ll have to agree to differ on that one, but let’s make sure that the conditions never exist again that we find ourselves in that scenario.

Not that I believe that we would, but I just think it’s important. 

lurleen lumpkin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842205#Comment_120842205

They're a nationalist?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842249#Comment_120842249

A few bonfires are nowhere near as offensive, threatening or intimidating as the Bobby Storey funeral which you defended to the death.

As for MON, she needs a little educating about the numerous alternatives to the PIRA campaign, and that were pursued by most of the nationalist public in the North. Her naive rose-tinted view of their terrorist campaign is common enough now, but still inaccurate.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842179#Comment_120842179

Oh it’s what you didn’t say. You are quick to point how wrong it is to burn a picture of mon, but no comment when posters advise the burning of Kate. You should have a wee think why you only challenge one side

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842420#Comment_120842420

What a lie, I criticised SF for the way they handled the funeral. Just because people don't go along with your famiiar 'hang 'em high if they are Shinners' stchick doesn't mean they are defending something.

And equating behaviour at a funeral to what goes on, on bonfire night and at some parades really is messed up TBH. But you will always find something if you need to deflect and defend.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842249#Comment_120842249

Here’s the type of thing our ‘FM for all’ says that I hope even you find more offensive than burning a flag

data:image/svg+xml,%3csvg%20xmlns=%27http://www.w3.org/2000/svg%27%20version=%271.1%27%20width=%2738%27%20height=%2738%27/%3e

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842589#Comment_120842589

Come on, you've already been badly caught out by all the Halloween bonfires in Monaghan. Stop trying to pretend you criticised the funeral. You defended the whiteshirts, you defended the politicians who attended it, you defended the fake burial, you defended the breach of Covid guidelines, just had some mild criticism around what Sinn Fein said about it.

What happened at the Storey funeral was truly chilling and does not compare to 12th July celebrations, I agree with you, the whiteshirts at that funeral were far worse, like a private army.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842609#Comment_120842609

If you read her full quote you will see that she is glad the situation no longer exists that left no alternative.

That suggests to me she regrets, as we all do, that a situation was allowed to exist where some felt there was alternative. You will hear loyalists say the same thing in their narratives of the past.

You will never control the narratives of others downcow, there is no supremacy for Unionism anymore in that regard.

P.S. I could exploit a Loyalist victim here if I was inclined, like you guys do all the time, but I won't.

downcow

its near time for the evening posts. 500,000 people had a great day. A few spectators will have overindulged and the detractors will be scarring Twitter now as the bands head back through the city centre to find a few indiscretions. I would expect to see the usual people posting from 6pm on

viewers should get ready for this and keep it in context

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842621#Comment_120842621

Come on, you've already been badly caught out by all the Halloween bonfires in Monaghan.

How do you figure that one out?

You do know that drug awareness give advice on using drugs properly? Does that mean drugs are legal?

I have not seen a local bonfire here in almost 10 years.

A 'tradition' has died out just like the tradition of burning suspected witches or the possessed died out, and we are not culturally worse off.

I criticised their handling of the funeral and rejected your hang em high demands blanch.

If it 'chilled' you, where is your empathy for those intimidated by threatening parades and bonfires?

Why are you defending it by pointing over there?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842632#Comment_120842632

Hasn't the OO found the behaviour on the march home disgusting and are thinking of scaling down the Belfast events?

If the OO cannot stomach it, why would you expect others to?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-66102199

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842586#Comment_120842586

You'd have me absolutely bang to rights.....one small issue though, I didn't mention Michelle O'Neill. I didn't actually mention anyone by name. The only specific party I even mentioned was Alliance.

I've actually not heard anything about any effigies of Kate Hoey being burned, nor does a quick search turn anything up; looking for her and bonfires only brings up results where she is the source of the controversy rather than the target of it.

I suppose that's just evidence that Google is in the RA and all.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120842691#Comment_120842691

I haven’t seen the internal report that was leaked, but I don’t think they said anything about being disgusted.

I understand the word abysmal was used in context. I understand the main issues were bands not being ready to form up for return, many had gone to pubs, and the parade became disjointed and appeared indisciplined. They were also referring to the behaviour of a few hundred spectators at shaftsbury square, who had 5 hours drinking time between the outward and return. The aim was to reduce drinking time for both groups.

I think it is highly positive that an organisation is so critical of itself, but it will not get much welcome here.

the people that wrote the report are the top brass of the Belfast OO, grey-haired, teetotallers, so it’s all relative.