Cost of a United Ireland and the GFA

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120902951#Comment_120902951

Now you are just being silly. The term ‘massacred’ is used often in football to denote a big defeat. Stop trying to spin it.

I hold no animosity at all towards the girls in the team. They were just ignorant. My problem is with a society that produces young girls who think this is ok.

anyhow, good on fifa, I see they confiscated the sectarian flag from the irish supporters. Hopefully another fine awaits.

as for your whataboutery, I’m not interested. This is about the cost of a United ireland and fixing this issue of prejudice (and more importantly denial) is going to be long and costly

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903008#Comment_120903008

Maybe before there is a UI you will fix the annual fiestas of hate, instead of the hollow lecturing of others? Because it is hollow if not hilarious coming from you.

What about taking a leaf out of the FAI and FIFA book and actually penalising these people? Maybe do what political leaders of republicanism and nationalism have done and engage with these young people, ask them if they know what they are doing and try to come up with positive ways to engage in 'culture' instead of the toxic hate events, as they have done?

Clean your act up re: bonfires, as the Parades Commission did for you re; parades?

You will be happier as a community and a positive force in a UI.

FrancieBrady

Great to see Dublin honour it's committment on this. Further mitigation of the stupidity of Brexit and a fulfilment of it's duty to the people on this island howsoever they identify.

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1684526889673670656

downcow

Irelands Future are taking an interesting approach to trying to convince people of a Ui. Basically it is ‘your country is even worse than ours’. It is an extremely negative approach and won’t work. I would love to see a poll of northern Irish people to see do they think they would be better if in Ireland or Uk. I think I know the answer because it’s roughly 50/50 on emotion who wants a Ui, and it’s nowhere near that when people engage their brains.

here’s a few recent posts from Irelands future - and then they want people who love ni to participate in their phone box meetings

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120904624#Comment_120904624

Basically it is ‘your country is even worse than ours’.

Not seeing that in any of the snippets you posted which are all factual from what I can see currently.

Aren’t the Tories now diverting money meant to help with the cost of living crisis into paying back the overspend.

There’s not much care for vulnerable people there.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120904671#Comment_120904671

Francie when I walk through Dublin I am shocked at the lack of support for the vulnerable. A very different picture from Belfast. Belfast is by no means perfect but as I say a visit to Dublin truly shocks me

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120903055#Comment_120903055

Francie you go on continuously about the Irish tricolour being on some bonfires. I condemn that and wish it would stop. But tell me, the endless situations that republicans use the flag, is that not equally dishonouring and disgracing it.

here’s a few examples. I’d like to know how posters who condemn it being placed on loyalist pallets, how are you about these uses?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905295#Comment_120905295

Thought you were asked to back up what you said about Ireland’s Future?

Nobody is promising utopia. Can you dispute any of the facts they presented? You walking around Dublin doesn’t really cut it tbh

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905344#Comment_120905344

Where do I ‘endlessly go on’ about burning the flag?

I go on about the effigies and KAT displays that are funded by actual paramilitary’s and supported by you, like you are doing here. Pointing at others as you do when your own house is rife with taunting and hate is just good old hypocrisy.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905372#Comment_120905372

Here’s one to start

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905388#Comment_120905388

I am not going down this route again (and I regret the flags post because you spin every post)

The question was what people think of their flag (and the one most think will be the flag of a Ui) being used like this?

ps glad to hear you are relaxed about the burning of flags on bonfires. I still believe it is wrong, but if you say your issue is with effigies and KAT then you only have an issue with single figures out of hundreds of fires 👍 ….and yes let’s prioritise removing the effigies and KAT/KAH from extreme loyalist and republic fires

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906243#Comment_120906243

Every thing you have to say about this is defensive?

How dare anyone criticise it.

'It is only a few'.

I said 'I don't go on endlessly about flags', that does NOT mean that doing it during the fiesta of hate is not causing problems.

I don't believe frankly that you have any issues with it all as you only defend it by trying to deflect.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906238#Comment_120906238

So you do ok at reading.

Is that it?

BTW,

Not sure why you used a 2015 graph when there is more current data available from 2021, see it here:

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906352#Comment_120906352

What about surprising us all and answering a question. How do you feel about the use of your flag in the images I posted?

simple question. Don’t fudge it.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906387#Comment_120906387

I have answered this many times.

I have ZERO issues with the respectful rememberance or burial of the dead.

I care very little about flags, if at all. A lifetime of watching people abuse them and using them to hurt and taunt leaves you like that.

If you have to find an image of an event that is not being held to taunt you to get offended, then I think you need to question what your agenda is.

In short, I don't care how people use flags as long as it is not being done to taunt.

I see people in European holiday spots use the UJ on everything from towels to underpants, and also the Irish flag abused when there are very clear protocols on how they should be used, I see both flags abused in NI, all the time and attached to unsavory people, am I offended?

Mildly, but to be honest, personally it isn't a big deal for me.

I don't think anybody should be burying people in paramiltary uniforms and trappings anymore either.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906357#Comment_120906357

Simply proves the nonsense of all this data and gotchas that gets posted up by either side. I only posted that because you asked me to demonstrate that Irelands future data is nonsense. You have helped me prove this. It shows that Irelands future are trawling the internet looking for negative stuff to say about the country that they say they love and want to marry.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906459#Comment_120906459

That’s great clarification. I had thought you felt much of our culture was offensive to you. But now you say it’s not a big deal then we should agree to stop the tot-for-tat posting of events. And I’ll not post pics of the upcoming republican bonfires in Londonderry etc which they have already collected our wreaths etc for. Actually you are right. I don’t care that much. I do find the glorification and rewriting of the activities of the ‘ra offensive but I can live with it.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906584#Comment_120906584

Look, when you deliberately post stuff without links you are going to get pulled up on them. I didn't ask you to show Ireland's Future data was nonsense

You claimed this:

Irelands Future are taking an interesting approach to trying to convince people of a Ui. Basically it is ‘your country is even worse than ours’.

I asked you to back up how they were doing that; saying ‘your country is even worse than ours’, you utterly failed to show that.

*And again, no it doesn't show all this data is nonsense, it shows that there is more up to date data out there that you should be posting.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120906604#Comment_120906604

You would love if people just ignored your fiesta of hate, but that should never happen.

Like those working hard in Derry to change ways, as they did with Féile in Belfast, we should never stop trying to talk civility and respect to these paramilitaries and communities that think this is some sort of cultural activity worthy of preserving.

As a nationalist leader in Derry said, removing bonfires is not being done for Unionist approval, it is being done for themselves, because self respect is important.

FrancieBrady

Great to see this. Two countries hosting this tournament in a spirit of co-operation that will benefit everyone. Great boost for West Belfast and the city in general too

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-and-irelands-bid-to-host-euro-2028-set-to-be-unopposed-12929140

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120905344#Comment_120905344

I get it. I get why Loyalists who have no frames of reference outside of NI would equate the tricolour with the IRA.

It could be argued that this is quite small-minded given that the vast vast majority of time when this flag is flown, it is flown proudly as an official flag of a nation and when it is viewed in the 26 counties it's unbelievable that it could be viewed as in the least bit offensive or aggressive.

I also get why for the other side the Union flag can be seen as offensive and I'm sure there are plenty of pictures to illustrate my point. I'll try to post a couple. Not as a "gotcha" or a "but but themuns" but as an illustration. It's not the flag that's offensive it's the actions of certain people.

From what I can gather from your posts downcow you live in Co. Down so I appreciate that for you, your feelings as you travel through an area festooned in tricolours (maybe you could name one such place here?) may well be equivalent to mine as I travel through Clough as I do roughly 20 times a year. I'm more ambivalent about them these days but the feeling of not being welcome is hard to shake.

I am fortunate enough to have the experience of living for a long period of time in NI, UK and now ROI so I can see how both flags can be antagonistic in NI but create no major offence in the UK or ROI. A lad I got drawn against in a charity darts tournament here a few years ago threw with Union Jack dart flights. Not a single person in the pub had the slightest issue with them. In fact I'm probably the only person who did a double take and that's due to where I was raised. Now if that tournament was in Turf Lodge it would be a different story. Similarly tricolours in Tigers Bay. Equally I've seen tricolours in England that don't usually merit a second glance. (Obviously exceptions everywhere and the Union Flag can be even be seen as offensive in certain contexts in UK due to its connections with the far right movement). Again it's not the flag that's offensive it's the actions of certain people.

It's gonna take time but until we get over ourselves regarding flags they will continue to be used in NI to antagonise and mark territory.

The last picture I've posted is of the Hill pub in Ranelagh, Dublin earlier this year. I think it was decked out this way for a film shoot. No big deal. Nobody got hurt. Very few cared one way or the other.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909790#Comment_120909790

Great post.

let me start by unequivocally condemning the use of the union flag in your pics. Disgusting and wrong.

yes I live very close to Clough. My hometown has tricolours flying all year around and at certain times, like the weeks around Easter, it is festooned with them. It currently has GAA flags flying from its traffic lights and bunting festooned between them. It also usually has the odd Palestinian flag flying and also starry plough etc.

tbh I hardly notice and it doesn’t annoy me. What upsets me far more is the council putting up Irish signs on every road with a republican majority. But that’s because I assume the flags etc are put up by locals and the Irish by authorities.

I just came through Clough this evening and it looked particularly impressive with the flags fluttering in the wind. I do though note again the two Uvf flags. These are clearly marked as 1912, but a poster on here said that he would prefer if they were 36th ulster division flags, and that was quite an eye opener to me. I thought it was a very reasonable suggestion. I will certainly be highlighting to those I know that I would be a good step forward to replace UVF 1912 with Ulster Division.

so there you go. This forum continues to educate me and I trust there will be a pebble effect.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909871#Comment_120909871

Had you just allowed Irish to be rolled out everywhere in it’s native land there wouldn’t have to be ‘republican’ areas. How you assess they are all republicans defeats me but there you go.

Not sure either why you would want plaudits for ‘not noticing’ the GAA well wishes and celebration of reaching the final of an All Ireland competition, all counties would do it here.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120909977#Comment_120909977

Francie you are demonstrating again you lack of awareness. Most nationalists I know would be very aware that bedecking a town in GAA colours has exactly the same outcome as bedecking a town in union flags with regard to labelling and exclusiveness.

the Irish we have covered many times and my genuine wish is that it can someday be depoliticised

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120910203#Comment_120910203

Unionists politicised the language and made a strategic mess of it too. They will lose the battle as Irish appears everywhere and nobody’s world collapses.

Bedecking a town in a county which is in a country final happens everywhere.

Of course some in Unionism are so insecure it would see a sporting sentiment as a threat. Sad really.

Choochtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120910203#Comment_120910203

Hopefully times are changing re. GAA as this article outlines. I think the local references in this might interest you downcow.

Andy Watters: BBC coverage of All-Ireland final is a proud day for Ulster GAA - The Irish News

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120910250#Comment_120910250

Francie you are at it again. Talking about Irish being a battle unionists will lose is extremely unhelpful- particularly to the decent Irish language lovers who are trying to promote it sensitively and undue the damage the Ira done to it.

you might, but I don’t know any unionists who see GAA flags as a threat. They just see them the same as a town bedecked in rangers flags when then win something big - Clough is an good example again. It just reminds everyone who is dominant. Remember it was the troubles (and we know who was responsible for them) that drove people into enclaves.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120910715#Comment_120910715

A good read. Should be to everyone’s benifit. The high profile in the general media then the greater need for GAA to address outstanding issues.

the whole casement park / ni football thing is also going to be interesting for all.

a big challenge for ni supporters to attend games in Casement but also a big challenge to GAA to make it a neutral venue.

out of curiosity can anyone tell me is there anything at casement to remember the two corporals who were stripped, tortured and murdered there. I watched that episode of ‘once upon a time’ last night and I had to leave the room while their murder was on. It is very very very deep in the memory of unionists. Is it big for nationalists? I can’t imagine ni supporters attending casement without a significant acknowledgment eg wreath laying / silence etc

ps I would highly recommend bbc ‘once upon a time’ series

downcow

One thing we would definitely bring to a Ui is raising the image of your police force. This is a tad embarrassing to watch at a passing out 😂😂

https://twitter.com/gardarep/status/1684897991759364103?s=48&t=5V7zYCkR8I-HtgpGGm2Opw

a step up from the provo bands and Ira funerals, but what is it with Irish and foot coordination 🙂

white people cant dance

irish can’t march

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120911028#Comment_120911028

The GAA and IRFU have experience of this.

See how the Ireland V England rugby game was handled in Croke Park without issue and with respect for the past. They also handled the visit of the British monarch to HQ with mutual respect being shown.

The GAA did not kill those soldiers. Not sure why you are trying to link it to them or that memorials are their responsibility.