"Nobody cares about Covid anymore"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038392#Comment_120038392

The funny thing is, we have evidence from the last 2 years that the HSE was busy as normal in Dec/Jan with a mask mandate in place.

I really don't get why people think there'd be such a difference with one now

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038307#Comment_120038307

Think of a number higher than 25,000... It's a numbers game, not an either or.

Masks are a low cost measure to reduce spread in environments such as public transport where we have random groups of different generations interacting, especially during peak winter surges.

Other EU countries with far better public health systems either had or have mask mandates. You can't resort to the blame the HSE annual winter mess to explain that.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038392#Comment_120038392

Because cases dropped and levels of immunity within the community increased due to infection and vaccination, so masks weren't as critical any more.

I honestly don't know what to say to your "bins" question. Literally don't even know what you're getting at.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038445#Comment_120038445

And yet last Christmas we had a mask mandate in place and had 89 in ICU at Christmas time.

Today we have 32 in ICU.

I see absolutely nothing in the data to suggest we'd be better off with a mask mandate.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038454#Comment_120038454

So herd immunity is a thing?

WE were told there was no such thing as herd immunity, because that would open up a load of possibilities we were not allowed to consider. ie. If herd immunity was a thing, then does a previous infection offer more protection than a vaccine? If so, why the mandate/passports? If herd immunity was a thing, does prior exposure to the many Coronaviruses previously circulating mean not everyone who is exposed to the virus will become ill? It's a pandora's box that we were not allowed to consider, just like the seasonality factor, the heath bureaucrats would rather they did our thinking for us!!

If cases dropped wouldn't that be the worst time to drop the mandate, in January 2022, wouldn't that be the riskiest time to drop an effective mask mandate? Why not wait until May, after flu season? If masks stopped/limited the spread then the masks must be soaked in the virus? For how long? If your mask stopped a viral load would handling the mask transfer the viral load?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038477#Comment_120038477

Lots of other things have changed between now and then so it is absurd to set it as a baseline for comparison.

Plus we need to consider its impact on respiratory viruses not just covid.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038484#Comment_120038484

That’s the thing I have an issue with. Masks are now being suggested for non covid viruses that we have always dealt with. There is more talk about masks than making the health service fit for the purpose of a typical Irish winter.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038484#Comment_120038484

We don't need to consider anything. We're fine without restrictions and masks and have been for almost a year now.

The Taoiseach has stated there are no plans for any sort of mandate.

And you yourself said you'll trust the opinions of our authorities so you obviously dont want a mask mandate?

Unless you do and are going against the authorities?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038501#Comment_120038501

Well we havent always dealt with them in a bad flu season.

Plus ours isnt the only health service struggling with the load of respiratory viruses this winter.

Prevention is better than treatment.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038507#Comment_120038507

They have my full support if they do and I am explaining the rationale as to why they might be warranted and why other countries still mandate them in certain settings.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038510#Comment_120038510

Fine, but if we really want to try prevention, mask mandates should be so far down the priority list that it is not worth mentioning.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038481#Comment_120038481

WE were told there was no such thing as herd immunity

I think what the pandemic showed us is that people struggle with more subtle messages.

STAY AT HOME was something everyone could grasp and it was a great success. Herd immunity is much more complex and people, understandably enough, fail to really grasp what it is.

Herd immunity absolutely is a thing. It's very much a thing for diseases in which vaccination (or infection) gives you immunity for life. It's why other anti science people could believe the previous bollocks about MMR vaccines without causing too many deaths.

The problem with Covid is that immunity doesn't last. It's like the flu or Norovirus, we've all had it or been exposed to it, why don't we have herd immunity? Because immunity wanes and the virus mutates. Once it became clear that Covid fell into that bucket, herd immunity as a goal to get rid of Covid forever was out the window.

However, that does not mean that we don't get some levels of shared immunity. When the vaccines came out first, cases fell off a cliff because they were so effective at reducing transmission and symptoms. Therefore even unvaccinated people shared in the benefits.

However, as the virus mutated away from the original strain, vaccines became much less effective at reducing transmission so cases began to tick back up. Likewise a tidal wave of infection like we saw in January 2021 would give loads of people antibodies, thus giving us partial herd immunity, but that too fades over time.

So to answer your question, yes, herd immunity "is a thing" but it means different things for different viruses, and it's that distinction that gets lost, so maybe it's easier just to keep it simple.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038522#Comment_120038522

Do they have your full support when they are saying there are absolutely no plans for a mandate?

rob316

Masks make shag all difference before even getting into the scientific reasons, most won't wear one correctly or a proper one.

StevenToast

Fùck me RTE pushing the numbers bollèx again....like it was last year....pìss off...

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038536#Comment_120038536

But the distinction was never discussed or considered, like the seasonality factor.

I agree with much of what you said in your post, it is a complex issue, however, it was assumed that herd immunity did not exist and therefore suggesting letting the virus "run riot" through the population was dismissed back in March 2020. It was the justification for all the restrictions.

I do, for the record, support a level of restrictions as it was/is a nasty infection for many. But more people have had the virus more than once than people who have avoided getting infected at this stage, which would strongly indicate the severe restrictions didn't actually achieve anything. This was evident at the very beginning, the supermarkets were the only thing open in April/May 2020 and the public were in and out all day every day and yet the staff in those supermarkets weren't getting infected...but of course, all indicators like such were ignored.

prunudo

The last couple of pages is like stepping back 2 years. The sooner everyone gets back to work and worries about normal every day issues again the better. Masks being subtly mentioned as required for regular winter respiratory illnesses, give me strength.

Bar a few on here or Anthony Staines getting his beak back in with broadcastors, nobody in the real world cares about covid.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038570#Comment_120038570

Interesting how they didn't go with something like "ICU numbers only 30% of what they were last year".

Don't Chute!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038522#Comment_120038522

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038522#Comment_120038522

They have your full support if they do as you said but do they have your full support if they DON’T?

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038247#Comment_120038247

If they want to avoid repeated infections, maybe stop getting boosted? Another study has come out showing that the more you are vaccinated, the more likely it is to test positive. This isn't the first study to show this.

Among 51011 employees, 20689 (41%) had had a previous documented episode of COVID-19, and 42064 (83%) had received at least two doses of a COVID-19 vaccine. COVID-19 occurred in 2452 (5%) during the study. Risk of COVID-19 increased with time since the most recent prior COVID-19 episode and with the number of vaccine doses previously received. 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.17.22283625v1.full.pdf

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038598#Comment_120038598

If they don't think it is necessary that is their call. That's separate question to whether it would help or not.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038603#Comment_120038603

That's a pre print study which has not been peer reviewed. It should not be used as the basis for any decision.

The study just shows you are more likely to report a positive test.

And the difference is very small between the groups.

It doesn't distinguish between symptomatic or asymptomatic. It didn't break down the roles into high risk or not. It didn't enquire into how often people in the different groups were testing \ tested.

Plausible to suggest that...

If you are have stopped engaging with the vaccination boosters, significantly likely you aren't testing etc as much either.

If you think you're in a high risk role, more likely to get vaccinated. And test yourself.

If you are concerned about covid, more likely to get vaccinated. And test yourself.

Don't Chute!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038617#Comment_120038617

If you are not saying yes to my question I assume it’s a no. If so, why are you willing to follow them unquestioningly when they agree with you and go against them when they disagree?

Flinty997

As for masks ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johndrake/2022/02/04/the-real-world-effectiveness-of-face-masks-against-covid-19/

Not that it matters. These threads are full of people who didn't follow any rules (or very few) then complain about how they don't work.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038710#Comment_120038710

One worrisome finding of the study is that the evidence for a protective effect in people who reported wearing a mask only “some of the time” (compared with “most of the time” or “all of the time”) is very weak.

Cluedo Monopoly

What saddens me the most is that I find masks everywhere when out walking and treking. I'd say I picked up 7-8 since the 23rd and I live in rural Galway.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038741#Comment_120038741

Doing anything some of the time isn't as effective as all of them time.

Maybe you think its suggesting if you live like a hermit, alone 50 miles from everyone you need to wear a mask "all the time"

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038741#Comment_120038741

What that probably tells you is that people who reported wearing masks "some of the time" actually wore them none of the time.

Like the people on this thread complaining about the Covid restrictions that they never abided by in the first place.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038784#Comment_120038784

The study certainly doesn't give me the impression that sticking a mask on on the Luas or for 10 mins in the supermarket is going to make any difference.

And I'm almost afraid to ask what "all of the time" means. Maybe those people that drive around with a mask on.

I'd rather catch COVID every now and then than wear a mask all the time or even some of the time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038924#Comment_120038924

Ah so the study doesn't give you the answer you wanted to see so people are obviously lying and didn't wear masks... Ok then.