The lets make alooo(o)f regret it in his first week Munster v Leinster Build up Thread

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037774#Comment_120037774

He's neither of those things tbh.

J Mysterio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037794#Comment_120037794

Crowley - 24 apps for Munster, 58pts.

Healy - 46 apps for Munster, 265pts.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037811#Comment_120037811

Unfortunately for Healy, those stats were accumulated under the old management team and entirely due to Carbery’s absences. He wasn't ever really "established".

So to answer your question, he's not in the mix because the new coaches think Crowley is better.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037757#Comment_120037757

It's a shame to see how much Carbery has regressed. The injuries have certainly taken their toll, mostly on his confidence. Saw him step away from tackling Rhys Ruddock last night, subconsciously his injury profile must be affecting him.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Carberry is being given a benefit of the doubt based on past performances imo.

Crowley is the young gun with buckets of potential that is outplaying's healy's best.

Ben Healy is also a young guy with a lot of potential but it's quiet clear he has fallen behind Crowley.

I'm suspecting Healy may move on at the end of the season. He wanted a one year contract last year and thats what he got. His stock hasn't gone up (due to the emergence of Crowley).

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037519#Comment_120037519

Murray is not a bad player, he's still one of the best scrum halves in Ireland. He is a bad fit for the Munster game-plan and needs a dominant pack to play his game which Ireland do have, but Munster do not.

The IRFU renewed his central contract until 2024 (😕) and they need him to be available for the 6 nations, and that means he needs minutes under his belt.

99% of Munster fans want Casey to be starting these big games with Murray or Patterson used as injury cover on the bench.

phily2002

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037481#Comment_120037481

Yeah similar to Murray, I don't think he should be in the Ireland squad but would hate to see him retire at 98 caps(was happy to see Murray get the ton). Farrell seems like the type of guy who'll get him over(Seems to really value these achievements) . Italy game and maybe a Summer match. Think his days in the big matches in green are over though

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037823#Comment_120037823

He got very hard at the beginning of the game and that seemed to have hurt him both physically and mentally.

Burkie1203

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037334#Comment_120037334

Was it luke mcgrath who ran through a front rower in the aviva too.

almostover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037841#Comment_120037841

Thems the breaks though. It's on every back row's radar to nail the opposition's no.10 whenever the chance presents itself. Have to be able to take the odd borderline late hit at the highest level. Crowley seems more robust in that regard.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037830#Comment_120037830

To be fair to Carbery (and I’ve been as critical of him as anyone) the 4-5 games prior to the Leinster game have been his best spell of form since before his ~2 year injury lay-off.

He’s seemed more willing to make, and take, contact to me. Hopefully he can continue that.

Rigor Mortis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037757#Comment_120037757

He may not be good enough, but he has the notable achievement of being on a winning Irish 23 more often against New Zealand than on a winning Munster team against Leinster. Beirne is probably in the same boat.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037469#Comment_120037469

Is there any proof of this ever happening? Seems like just speculation

Dubinusa

I see the improvement in Munster. The attempts to vary the attack, the willingness to to put new lads in and the tempo they are playing at. Seriously, I look at Munster as a plodding side looking to choke the life out of the opposition and impose the power. These days, there's a willingness to go wide and use the backline. There's players that can improve the team, Hodnett for one, Kendellen and Crowley. There's less emphasis on the kick chase and the forwards are playing at a more skilled level.

Didn't know that Rowntree is on a 1 year deal. He should be given time!

For Leinster the old warrior Healy performed admirable. As did Ruddock. Ruddock is such a good player. Any team would love to have him. In my opinion, Leinsters defense is a step above. Luke and RB are just fantastic tacklers. They are a superb tandem. Deegan Penny and Baird tackled aggressively. Penny is a clone of Connors, great technique.

Joe McCarthy reminds me of a young Henderson. Powerful and strong as a horse. He's raw and young but, he could kick on to a high standard.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037832#Comment_120037832

Ireland have a dominant pack? When did that happen?

Casey is much more similar to JGP than Murray is, but Farrell still prefers the latter, and there is nobody telling him who to pick. They just think he's better, like the Munster coaches.

Patterson isn't even in the conversation.

Clegg

I've watched the game back on YouTube. Ringrose and Joe McCarthy were the standout players for me. Despite Munster scoring three trys I think the former locked down any sort of midfield plays Munster tried to make.

McCarthy was wrecking ball in attack and defence. Made some huge carries with defenders handing off him and some huge hits which sent Munster behind the gainline.

Tadhg Beirne probably shouldn't have started the game. He looked knackered early on the second half half and was falling off tackles he'd normally make.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038108#Comment_120038108

For now. But last night was as bad as I’ve ever seen him play.

If his form continues to deteriorate, I can definitely see a 9 months where that changes, and Murray doesn’t make the RWC, tbh.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120036905#Comment_120036905

I dunno.

That was almost full strength Munster against very-not-full-strength Leinster.

If anything, last night just highlighted just how far ahead Leinster are of everyone else.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038155#Comment_120038155

Yeah but that wasn’t the point in question. It wasn’t relative to Leinster. It was about improvements in Munsters attacking play. Even the fact they managed 3 tries would evidence that.

Interested Observer

Really don't think Murray was particularly worse last night as any other time in the last 18 months imo. Going back to the Lions tour for example, he was unbelievably poor.

Casey has one European start in his career and it was when Murray was injured. For the SA game in the Autumn, Murray started while Casey was off getting mullered by the NZ XV. There doesn't appear to me to be any evidence either Farrell or Rowntree see Casey as being ahead of Murray, yet at least.

Dubinusa

I saw nothing different about Murray. He's the same. Nothing extraordinary just Murray. Casey adds tempo, his kicking has improved. I'd give him every start from now on.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037832#Comment_120037832

Doesn’t matter a monkeys what 99% of fans want. It is abundantly clear that Munster coaches prefer Murray. No IRFU interference needed for his selection.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038108#Comment_120038108

Patterson isn't even in the **** conversation. FYP.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038155#Comment_120038155

A few weeks ago a plausible argument could have been made that ulster were the second best side in the country, they got torn apart by leinster.

If any irish side meets them in the knockouts of europe, and its very possible they will then a full strength Leinster side has the ability to put 30 points on any of the other 3 provinces.

aloooof

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120038384#Comment_120038384

His box-kicking was really poor too tho, which is normally where he’s better than Casey.

And Casey put in that beaut of a 50:22 prior to the try after Barron’s rip.

lawrencesummers

Here is the thing with murray.

JGP starts for ireland no question.

Casey or Murray are probably the bench options currently.

In a big international with 15 minutes to go which one do you want coming on?

For me it depends if your winning or losing. Give me murray any day to protect a lead but give me casey anyday to chase a score. Unfortunately you don't know if your going to be ahead or behind when you are picking.

BoardsMember

Munster level has improved a lot in 6 months, or maybe it's just a big game performance thing. If they started with Casey and Crowley it might help make them a little less predictable, a few more options. I'd have loved to have seen them playing this well with those two plus De Allende at 12.

AdamD

I'd argue Munster's level dropped so much in the first few months of the season that their current improvement is just getting back to their level from last season, albeit with a slightly different style and hopefully more room to grow.

Neil3030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120037469#Comment_120037469

Rowntree signed a two-year deal.

He says so in this interview: https://youtu.be/jqXu62lJPoA

Dubinusa

Munster need to rest players. Beirne looked off the pace, he needs a break. Kleyn could use a week off too. Losing Ahearn was brutal, then Edogbo.