Rent arrears described as Long Covid

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025339#Comment_120025339

Again it's your choice what you want to do. Go for the riskier tenant and potentially get higher rent or give it to someone who is more trustworthy for a lower rate. If you can manage the risk, by all means go with the former. If getting a bad tenant would be a disaster, then I'd suggest considering the latter.

Would it have been "stupid" of the landlord on this case to have had a lower rent and some appreciative and trustworthy tenants? Maybe he would have only gotten 60k in rent instead of the 70k he is owed. If a landlord with only one property who was dependent on the rent, then I reckon he'd bite your hand off to go back and do the former. If a landlord with loads of properties, it is probably better for him financially to take the risk

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025354#Comment_120025354

Again as I pointed out charging 650 euro a month does not imply a riskier tenant, you are just making that up.

And charging less rent does not guarantee a better tenant, that is just nonsensical.

If you are on here trying to get your rent reduced then you need some stronger arguments.

Oscar Madison

Keep it local I always say!

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025365#Comment_120025365

Who ever said anything about guarantees. This is common sense dude. If it is over your head then so be it. Perhaps it would not be wise for you to have any money in that business.

See immediately above post for some very good advice

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025306#Comment_120025306

The landlord willingly gave them possession (not me) in return for the payment of rent. They have run up a debt they have no intention of paying. They have ignored a RTB ruling. They have ignored a court ruling with a spurious appeal. At this stage, there is no way you can suggest they are remaining at the premises with the willing permission of the landlord. If our law is unable to prosecute people for this type of behaviour, it needs to be changed. This type of behaviour is costing honest tenants money in increased rents due to lack of supply, its adding people to homelessness due to lack of supply, and its costing the state more money in terms of increased HAP payments and RTB/court time. The Landlord is not the only victim here.

In terms of risk, if you want landlords to leave the market as the risks are too high - maybe having a regime that allows them to do so would be a start.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025371#Comment_120025371

If it was common sense to charge 20% less than the market rent, market rent would already be 2000 not 2500, then 1600, then 1270....... I think you see where this is going.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025382#Comment_120025382

Again you need to get your head around facts. It would be unfortunate to be having to get your head around it after something goes wrong but if you are unfortunate to hit that point, you would still need to get your head around it and accept it at that time

Nowhere did I say they currently have permission of the landlord. What I am explaining to you is that they do have possession of the property and the owner cannot unilaterally displace that. Regardless of how "unfair" you think it is or isn't. They have possession because the owner willingly gave it to them. They are not "squatters".

There is no impediment to any landlord leaving the market. Any landlord who wants can put their property up on daft.ie in the morning. If they set an appropriate price, they will get a buyer. There is no need for any hysterics on that front.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025386#Comment_120025386

No. Try reading my posts again. If you are in a position to accept and manage the risk, then fire ahead and charge the full whack. If you aren't then consider ways that you can still do the investment while reducing the risk to a level acceptable for you!

Bigger landlords can indeed do the former as they diversify away the idiosyncratic risk.

HeidiHeidi

Why do you think that the risky/ dodgy tenants (such as those who feature in this case) would not rent at the lower price point?

I'm sure when they signed the lease they looked like normal functioning adults who would honour the contract they'd just signed, and pay the rent. Much as they would have if the rent was €2k per month. Or even €1500 per month.

Or do you think they'd have thought "well actually that's a fair rent, let's not stiff the landlord by paying absolutely nothing for 3 years and tying him/them up in legal knots all the way to the Circuit Court"?

There's no suggestion in this case that hardship was a cause of the default. There appears to have been no attempt to pay any rent at all.

What makes you think that offering a lower rent would attract a more trustworthy standard of tenant?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025477#Comment_120025477

You appear to be confused.

Do you know any landlords?

Do you know any that would not have anyone connected to them in any way that would be willing to rent their property for a bit below market rent? No cousins or friends or work colleagues or children of friends etc? Or even someone who is vouched for by someone they trust? Someone who would jump at the chance to save a few quid on their own rent?

If you are unable to handle the risk of renting to a dodgy stranger, then rent to someone you have a connection with at a lower rent in order to greatly reduce that risk. Rent to someone more stable who would have more appreciation of that reduced rent and who would be more anxious to keep it. If a tenant is permanent to an area, and they are getting rent at say 20% below the market, well in theory they can try to stiff the landlord. They will "save" on rent for the time it takes them to get out but they will eventually be gotten out and they will go back to paying market rate. They'll have lost their reduced rate.

As the poster above said "keep it local". If you are a landlord with 100 properties then that does not apply to you.

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025304#Comment_120025304

Why should people who engage in property speculation have a better standard of living over those who don't? Why should property owners be entitled to massive profits on their investments? Why should property owners be entitled to borrow massive sums from banks and have others pay it back for them>

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025382#Comment_120025382

They don't need the landlords permission they have the permission of the judge and thus the state.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025541#Comment_120025541

It's what happens in a free market.

Are you advocating communism?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025524#Comment_120025524

I’m struggling to see how you yourself have any insight into renting properties. Bad tenants rarely tell you they are going to rip you off when they come to view your house, and LLs shouldn’t have to take the default view that all tenants are bad until proven otherwise. It is not a case that LLs are bad business people, or should accept the consequences of an errant tenant, just because it is a possibility, it would be completely ill informed to think the rental sector runs that way.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025554#Comment_120025554

Well if you rent to your buddy and your suspect that your buddy is going to rip you off, then maybe it is time to reconsider who you count as your friend.Do you have any friends that you think might be less likely to rip you off than a fella who just arrived off the boat with no connection to you or the country?

You most definitely will have to accept the consequences of a non-paying tenant. Why do you think you shouldn't? Any business can be stuck with bad debts.

Do you yourself not have any connections at all who might be renting if you had a property to rent? Rather than trying to get another 20 Euro a month off some person with potentially no ties to the jurisdiction, never mind the locality? Are you telling us that you would have no such connections?

If you can handle the risk then that's fine. If you can't, then consider how to reduce it.

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025583#Comment_120025583

Like your namesake, you talk some amount of b0llocks. You put forward a ridiculous argument about cheaper rents vs dearer rents and good paying tenants vs bad non-paying tenants, and continue on with this ridiculous line of argument that somehow the landlord is responsible for the tenant refusing to pay the rent they entered into a an agreement to pay. Please just give it a rest, you know you're talking shiite.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025632#Comment_120025632

lol. If you are going to read whatever you want into any post then fire away. The scutter you posted above has no decipherable relevance to anything I said.

There does appear to be a correlation between "landlords" who are always on here moaning and complaining about their situation and an inability to comprehend basic facts and points. Correlation <-> causation?

Lads that think they know everything coming on here constantly because they realised something that they should have known in advance. And then even still failing to grasp it after it is explained to them.

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025632#Comment_120025632

When you go into the property renting business one of the main risks associated with that business is a tenant potentially not paying the rent correct?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025662#Comment_120025662

Ah yeah, but Tipsy, nobody told them that. And they weren't able to figure it out for themselves. It's not fair. How could they have known that?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025583#Comment_120025583

How do you know if or when a friend, or a tenant for that matter is going to rip you off? What insight do you have that makes your prediction unfailing?

You seem to think that LLs should expect to be ripped off, and if they are, that is the cost of doing business and should be accepted. An opinion like that shows not only a lack of understanding of what renting is, but also what business of any type is. No one goes into a binding agreement expecting to be ripped off, if that was the way commerce was conducted, there would be no commerce.

You really do post some absolute muck, I have you on ignore setting, but annoyingly I sometimes see your posts when they are quoted.

TipsyMcStagge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025548#Comment_120025548

I think a dose of what Stalin gave to the kulaks might not go amiss here alright.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025669#Comment_120025669

Grand. So your friends and colleagues would be equally as likely to rip you off as a stranger only off the boat whom you have no connection to. Mine wouldn't, but I have different friends and acquaintances.

May I respectfully suggest that perhaps you should consider a different are in which to invest your money were you going to do so.

How is this so difficult to understand for people? I'm honestly flabbergasted. If you are afraid of being ripped off as a landlord, then rent your property to the person who will least likely rip you off even if it means giving them a little discount. It's hardly a difficult concept?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025680#Comment_120025680

I invest in lots of different ways, I accept risk, but I don’t expect to be ripped off by my investment advisor, nor should the default setting be that he could or should rip me off. And it would be idiotic for someone like yourself to tell investors that they should expect/accept the risk of being ripped off by an investment advisor,

Truth be told I would not rent to, invest in, or lend to a close friend.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025545#Comment_120025545

....and thats what this whole thread is about. The judge has facilitated an extension of this fiasco for a further 2 months even though the RTB already gave their determination a year ago. These people should not be supported by the court system in this way, they should be facing jail time. The state is facilitating these people but its not going to compensate the landlord for the extra 2 months accommodation. IMHO, that is the Irish state failing to support the law abiding citizens of the land. If thats the system the state has in place, I think the majority of the citizens would like it to be changed.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025439#Comment_120025439

Yes there is an impediment: if the amount raised from a sale is less than the amount owed to the bank, then the bank will not consent to the sale. And without the bank's consent, no sale can happen.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025880#Comment_120025880

Nope. That is a self-imposed criteria. There is no impediment to the landlord paying the difference. It has nothing to do with any "regime".

I mean if you are going to do that line of argument, sure we can insert that technique into any debate - "how do you expect me to work as a taxi driver when there is not a regime whereby I can renew my licence" - "eh you can renew your licence" - "no, not if I don't want to pay the cost".

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025724#Comment_120025724

Your analogy is nonsensical. An advisor is someone who advises you what to do or not to do. It is eventually up to you to make the decision based on their input.

Don't put your money is bitcoin either and expect to come back whinging if it goes to near nothing. Put it into investments you can manage. Plenty of people and companies are able to function as landlords. We should not be pandering to those who cannot actually cope with it.

HeidiHeidi

You're so far down the landlord rabbit hole at this stage it's farcical.

What about the tenants who signed a lease - a legal contract, like - to pay rent for the property?

How are they not the bad guys in this whole thing (I mean, they are, but pandering to the few loonies who seem to have taken over this thread).

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025979#Comment_120025979

Where do they get hhe cash to pay the difference? The magic money tree?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120025986#Comment_120025986

Seriously? This shows how little you know.

Firstly, investing in rental properties is nothing like bitcoin, and if the person you entrust your money/asset to rips you off ala SBF, you’d be a bit of a clown to say that you should expect, and accept being ripped off as being part of the investment process.

Plenty of companies, and even some individuals can afford to absorb the losses on the scale of the article in the op, but you would have to be a complete cretin to say that their ability to do so is an indicator that the sector as a whole should require that ability as a normal part of investing.