50 years and four days in the European Union today

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056786#Comment_120056786

The economic state of Ireland in the 1920s and in the first years of independence was indeed largely the fault of the British. Hard to make a cogent argument otherwise really.

We also don't have endemic political corruption.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056830#Comment_120056830

Maybe you are right, maybe I should soften my stance.

There is no evidence that we can govern ourselves based on our history since the foundation of the state.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056847#Comment_120056847

We don't have endemic political corruption?

Ah now...this is delusional. Are we endemically corrupt today, I don't think so, was Dublin city damaged by endemic political corruption by Senior Politicial figures in it's planning department...only a fool would suggest otherwise!

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056856#Comment_120056856

Ah well. Speaking of "cultural chinks" or quirks that is a strong one at times, the negativity or catastrophising.

Ireland is the worst (at x/for y), Irish are the MOPE, the politicians here are uniquely corrupt divils, and (though as I said, I have not had personal experience of Irish people taking it this far, as it seems to edge towards bigotry or maybe self hate) "we can't govern ourselves"...

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056932#Comment_120056932

Ok, tell me about this well run state pre EU membership then?

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120054199#Comment_120054199

The truth is most Irish people were never too big on self governance, happy enough to have the big decisions made for them, whether it was by London, Rome or Brussels.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056719#Comment_120056719

That’s because SF see the benefit of unrestricted immigration to their agenda succeeding…They need and want those votes. So much so that they are actively cheerleading now our EU membership.

when Ursula Von Der Leyen showed up here McDonald was basically in raptures of excitement…she said…

“I warmly welcome European Commission President von der Leyen here today. 

Through your work on the Commission you have been a good friend to Ireland and demonstrated your desire to work with Ireland towards these common goals.

This year, Europe has shown the power of its unity and its solidarity in standing squarely with the people of Ukraine. “

soooo yeah….

lots of quite moderate people are beginning to question Ireland’s EU membership….the problem isn’t with those questioning it, they arnt ‘far’ anything… the problem is the EU…. Which as a political and economic ‘union‘….is instead severely and possibly irreparably disengaged from the needs, concerns and challenges of EU citizens…. Those of us whom they should be prioritising. Too busy focusing on events… further east.

Ukranian flags already fly outside EU in Brussels and the building is lit in blue and yellow at night….. democracy eh..

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057024#Comment_120057024

Your last paragraph is pure and utter fantasy.Post Brexit Irish support for the EU is the strongest its ever been. It's not an issue outside of a few barstool and Boards cranks.

It reminds me of something a poster said about the National Party "2% of the population support the party and 98% of that 2% is on Boards".

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057024#Comment_120057024

If the moderates are asking questions, why is literally every single Eurosceptic party in Ireland nothing more than a band of deranged racist morons?

Furze99

I don't know - there's good and bad being in the EU. And whenever we've had a related referendum both sides get a good airing. I've voted both ways in the past in those referendums depending on the arguments put forward.

joe40

If a large economy like the UK is suffering after leaving the EU, how much worse would it be for a small country like Ireland

The EU may not be perfect but we are much better of within the union than outside.

Such scutter about us not able to govern, we do as well as every other small EU nation.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057171#Comment_120057171

It's amazing how some people hate their own country and its people so much that they're hoping to inflict serious damage so they can be right on the internet.

Count Dracula

I think we have probably benefitted from being members. However we should remember we only got in in 1973 to enable the UK to get in, we weren't really on the priority list, the big fish they wanted was Britain.

We have no real say on any of their policies, mind you I do like the way that they can influence what goes on overhere and by in large they have been a positive influence.

I think they have used us as a stick to beat the Brits with over the border issues, the bargaining lines have been unreasonable considering the ramifications and what is at stake? We would be far better off having our own input into our own island than having Dutch, French or Belgians getting tight on matters that will never be of much concern to them. Britain have really put a spanner in the works and I think over time that will impact negatively on our input into international trade affairs. Despite Britain being out of the union they still have a remarkable economic impact on it? What the EU say they are attempting to do and what they actually end up doing are remarkably different things. If you asked any of the main original states what they think of our involvement now, if they were being honest, they would have to say that in 50 years we have now become an economic problem for them as opposed to the economic solution that we offered in 1973.

I won't start on their bullshít environmental directives they are imposing on our farming industry, but it is an absolute shambles what is happening there and to see our own politicians eat their crap is sickening - and I would generally be a supporter of the current government, but allowing that to happen to our farming industry is appalling?

We might be in, but we are currently a problem for them. Like poo on their shoe.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057192#Comment_120057192

Excuse me....are you a mod?

Are you accusing me of hating my own country, or is your problem that I am referencing a dysfunctional era in our shared history?

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057200#Comment_120057200

None of this is true.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057200#Comment_120057200

The EUs position on brexit and Northern Ireland is basically entirely driven by Ireland.

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056971#Comment_120056971

No, don't feel like lugging that goalpost about. We can and do govern ourselves. Despite f-ckups, democracy has survived intact, state has not devolved to autocracy/dictatorship or collapsed due to civil strife or warfare etc. at any point since independence.

If your new point is we didn't get to the place where we are now alone + the years of EU/EC/EEC membership helped us quite a lot with that, okay (we might be on same page now, but in a different book from "we can't govern ourselves").

I think it raised standard (+ public expectations) of governance here in terms of reducing corruption, increasing the openness of govt., giving citizens more rights, and even just the small thing of exposing politicians and administrators to different ideas (other than from the "mothership" in UK, or the US) and ways of doing things.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057305#Comment_120057305

Ah ok, we have avoided authoritarianism...mightn't have felt that way if some priest was beating the s**t out of you for writing with your left hand in schools across the country but I understand you point, we aren't all bad. And I have already stated why I am pro EU, it has been a huge reason we became an open country. It's nuts we completely avoid being critical of our past, especially given our past, sometimes I think we haven't changed a bit (in terms of our tendency toward intolerance) which concerns me.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056914#Comment_120056914

We don't have endemic political corruption. Hard boiled nonsense.

We're not perfect, but we're among the least corrupt states in the world.

Silentcorner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057359#Comment_120057359

There's nowhere perfect.

We have had endemic corruption in our Capital city. Our Taoiseach was found to be in possession of sackfuls of cash, I don't need to mention the Haughey era, or the tribunals or the Church sex abuse scandals. Hard boiled nonsense you say?? Tell that to the victims.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056557#Comment_120056557

Can you quote me where I gave dates on anything on this?

I'll wait.

I'm not a mystic meg, I'm a realist and if Britain refuses to police it's own border in the Irish sea then there is no other option for us.

There won't be a physical border on this island.

The inspections will have to be between Ireland and the continent. It's not a choice.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057385#Comment_120057385

I'm not trawling through 6 years of the Brexit thread for something that stupid and no sane poster would expect me to.

But it happened and plenty remember. One time you had us all counting down to the next Monday when Boris and Mogg had promised to rip up the NIP. Monday came and went like every other.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057046#Comment_120057046

Brexit happened 3 years ago, boards cranks and barstool cranks aside… plenty of people with reasonable concerns as to the direction of life in this country courtesy of decisions being made with likely risks to citizens wellbeing….personally, economically, socially and health wise are completely and 100% legitimate…and are in many cases have been and continue to be proven to be….polls ran by government mouthpieces ? I’ll listen to what people around me say…. What is happening in the country, first hand…None frequent barstools or are classed as cranks btw….

road_high

I’m broadly in favour of membership but what I loathe is the absolute derivation of responsibility our useless political class love to attribute to the EU when it suits them to do nothing. Some crap about they couldn’t reduce VAT on fuel as the “EU won’t let them”. I mean what the actual fcuk? If that’s the case then why not just abolish Dáil Éireann and run the lot directly from Brussels.

I really feel our political class love to deflect as it waters down any attempt for direct responsibility- I have a major problem with that tbh

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057400#Comment_120057400

Well no it didn't.

So you can give that up.

The situation is as it is which is fragile. Until the Brits start doing what they signed up for it will remain that way and our place in the single market is at risk.

This is not breaking news.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057402#Comment_120057402

None of those concerns involve our membership of the EU though.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057420#Comment_120057420

It's not fragile.

road_high

Who is next in line to join? Serbia, Bosnia herozgovnia ,Montenegro Albania?

I think Montenegro and possibly Serbia are next in line to join.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057439#Comment_120057439

There are currently 8 including Ukraine and Turkey but they are all years away from meeting criteria.

road_high

A major positive of joining was it raised the standards of the country so we could compete properly- we were an uncompetitive economic basket case pre joining. We had to raise our game

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057454#Comment_120057454

Forgot Turkey I think they had all but stalled. I think Montenegro and Serbia are the most advanced and not too far off convergence

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120056719#Comment_120056719

And Kermit

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057383#Comment_120057383

I'll repeat, we do not have endemic political corruption. We are among the least politically corrupt states in the world.

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057014#Comment_120057014

You have gone off the deep end and dived into a barrel of horseshit now Dyr. We have 100 years of big decisions behind us now, some correct and some incorrect but all made by our own elected governments.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057454#Comment_120057454

Turkey will never join. Not even bothering with the reform process required.

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057385#Comment_120057385

You have given specific deadlines at least 5 times in the Brexit thread. There was 1 in particular about 3 years ago were you said we would definitely be out within 6 months. I challenged to make a bet in favour of a nominated charity, about 10 other people offered the same bet and you disappeared.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057435#Comment_120057435

Better send your memo to the Department of Foreign Affairs so.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057471#Comment_120057471

When did I ever say I wanted Ireland out of the EU?

The usual suspects here read what they want to read.

I want two things:

An end to ever closer union

A free trade area

That doesn't have to mean out of the EU. It means reform and an end to pretensions.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057469#Comment_120057469

Montenegro are the only close one according to this report (from 2017 though)

https://www.euractiv.com/section/enlargement/news/most-eu-hopefuls-might-not-be-ready-to-join-before-2050-study-finds/

This one from 2021 is more positive but politics is getting in the way for many with no breakthrough in sight

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/my-europe/amp/2021/10/05/eu-facing-crisis-of-credibility-in-western-balkans-as-leaders-meet-for-regional-summit

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057507#Comment_120057507

It's the same Putinist QAnon stuff you've spouted for literally more than half a decade.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057656#Comment_120057656

Blah blah, you just don't like anyone with a different opinion to yourself. There is a word for that incidentally associated with a maniacal force that tore through the continent but I'll show restraint.

I take it you still haven't reconciled yourself with the decision of your fellow compatriots more than half a decade later.

PeadarCo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057507#Comment_120057507

The EU is a free trade area. That's what the single market and customs union are. But both those things require that everyone adopts the same laws and regulations. To do that you need to pool sovereignty. And what happens if one of those rules/laws needs to change or be updates? You end up with the EU commission,EU parliament etc or an equivalent set of bodies.

The EU is still a free trade area, a highly integrated free trade area but a free trade area. Brexit shows that. Countries are free to leave whenever they want. If you only want a free trade area what's your problem with the EU? Why are you not celebrating Ireland being part of the biggest multi national free trade area in the world for 50 years?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057744#Comment_120057744

He wants a free trade area where we get green passports and a unique Irish pint symbol on our glassware 🤣

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057755#Comment_120057755

Nah, he wants to watch his country burn so he can own the libs.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057696#Comment_120057696

I see you deleted this post.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057761#Comment_120057761

What makes you think i'm not a liberal? You do understand that many people are a lot more nuanced in their views than you seem to appreciate. I'm very centrist in my views generally.

Oh and let's not forget your rather right wing Tory party view of Ireland and our history either on display recently. Quite at odds with your pro-EU so-called liberal hat.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057786#Comment_120057786

I'm not British, thankfully. They're not my compatriots.

If you're going to commit to the Q stuff, at least get the basics right.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057800#Comment_120057800

What 'Q' stuff. What are you on about? All you seem to be doing is trying to transpose the UK's polarised Batman vs the Joker politics on here.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057828#Comment_120057828

The conspiracy theories and fake news you've spent years spreading.

paul71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057507#Comment_120057507

No you don't want those 2 things Kermit. You want Irexit and you have wrapped that wish up in fantasies and lies for over half a decade now.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057845#Comment_120057845

Enlighten me... give me one, just one, of these conspiracy theories.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120057385#Comment_120057385

even if your fantasy came true, inspections at the border between ireland and europe won't be an issue because it will b only for products originating from the UK for which the costs will be bore by the customer and the business selling them.

ireland will not be exiting the single market or the EU and we definitely won't be re-alining with a now failed state.

your fantasy is just that, a fantasy.