Round trip Dublin Heuston - Cork Kent - Dublin Heuston this weekend

Praetorian

I had a similar thread in 2018 and I thought why not follow it up with an early 2023 thread.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057855173/dublin-heuston-to-cork-journey-24-march-2018-obervations/p1

This time I took a southbound 0900 train comprised of 201 class loco with mark IV carriages.

The train was clean, staff were friendly. Went 1st class this time in coach A, why not! Train was very busy elsewhere, but 1st class was quiet which suited me. Lots of the seats were missing head rest cushions which was a little disappointing. Train manager (conductor?) gave me one. Wifi wasn't great this time, but my own phone 4g was fine most of the time. It's a great shame they don't have the bar / cafe open on board. Or at least a trolley service. Surely Irish Rail are missing out on a massive cash cow with this omission.

Not much has changed in 5 years really. Journey times are not far off 3 hours which isn't great. I checked the speeds regularly and many sections are 70 / 80 / 90mph. 100mph sections are frustrating as I've never seen a 201 class actually hit 100mph. The maximum I saw on the way down was 94mph and that was extremely rare. The ride quality is still really variable. You can have absolutely silky smooth sections, but large sections are quite poor. The faster sections don't even always correlate with the smooth sections. You can have 70mph limits on smooth sections, and higher limits and bumpy sections. I'm just a little disappointed with the lack of investment but we all know our railways are underfunded.

On the way back I specifically picked on off peak service so I could finally take an ICR 22000 class train on the Cork line. The ride possibly is a little smoother. The 22's definitely hit higher speeds, as I measured 98-99mph regularly enough. Actually I'm confident these units could do more. I assume they are hitting a defined computer controlled speed limit. I don't feel they hit that limit in the most graceful manner as they seem to bounce off the limit, drop a bit of speed then get back to it over and over again. "1st class" is pointless on an ICR other than getting a quiet coach. The 4 abreast rigid seating on the ICR's is inferior to the 3 abreast more comfy seats on the mark iv's.

I'm an old fashioned loco hauled fan. So I do prefer the 201 / mark iv combination. But I do reluctantly acknowledge the dmu's surely must give IR very good reliability in comparison. They are just a bit noisy and uncivilized compared to old school loco hauled stock in my opinion. ;)

What other train journeys should I do around Ireland? I've done all of the North / Rosslare / Cork / Kilarney.

cml387

It's possible to go from Waterford to Galway via Limerick, but it needs the full day one way.

L1011

The lack of a trolley service is because nobody finds it viable to tender to run it - it is far from a cash cow.

bikeman1

Did your 09:00 arrive on time / stick to time en route? The timetable is quite slack which means there’s no need to get up to 100mph and many hold back a bit of speed as a result. They know they will be waiting down the line.

I’ve had many 100mph with the 201s.

Also the trains are driven manually, not set speed control. So the drops are actually gradients on the line. It takes good skill and route knowledge to keep the speed at a constant level.

Grandeeod

The MK4s have been and continue to be an unmitigated disaster. I was on the first Press run in 2006. The ride quality was a discussion topic back then. CAF had a premises in Heuston for years down towards Platform 10. Apart from being dated and poorly maintained, the ride quality is still terrible. I rode one in early December between Dublin and Portlaoise. At some points on the trip it literally felt like the train would come off the track. The look on passenger faces! I don't take the same interest anymore and I'm glad because very little has really changed. The Irish Rail offering on IC is no better than it ever was. The lack of catering adds to the awfulness.

If we had time travel I'd love to go back and have CTC/CWR across the network with well maintained MK2/3S running IC services. Even in BRs latter days it was great. All the money invested and it's still a shambles in Ireland. It really is.

whisky_galore

Ah bless. Journeys within Ireland are short. I mean which long distance bus services here offer you food?

People won't work for buttons anymore just so you can have an overpriced tea and a sandwich, make your own.

end of the road

people won't work for buttons to provide over-priced food, agreed and i support workers refusing to do that.

however the train does have to find ways to separate itself from the bus, as ultimately it will just end up being an over-priced bus which is not a good strategy.

bikeman1

In respect of the catering comment.

It is very hard to make a decent profit, which is what these big outsourced corporations want for their shareholders. It would be better offered to a smaller independent operator to run, who is more on the ground with the operation so to speak.

In Slovakia, they have outsourced to a new catering operation in recent years. It's a great setup, a reimagined menu with things like hot dogs and chicken curry as well as the local favourites. Decent beer and wine selctions, good coffee. All things people want. There is no reason why you can't get a proper coffee on board a train with a diner in 2023. Having this distinction over a bus, would be hugely beneficial on core trains.

ArmaniJeanss

I'd say a massive insurance premium (to cover both an injury to staff pushing a trolley through a moving train, and an injury to a customer when dealing with hot liquids/food on a moving train) is possibly the main barrier that stops it being a profitable endeavour for someone to take on.

In your Slovakian example it's probably as simple as 'make coffee, hotdog & doughnut for €5, sell for €8, repeat til stock runs out' with not much else to worry about. A small margin in a small business, perfect for a small independent as you say. But that's not sustainable if there's a massive external cost.

trellheim

I had meant to ask why someone does not tender for this, surely they can charge what they like in the tender or on the trolly ? How does it lose money ?

goingnowhere

Its a loss making operation, Irish Rail actually pay the provider.

Problem is they are not paying enough...

L1011

I would imagine they would not be willing to subsidise it by any more than the losses made by Network Catering (1.3m in 2004). Albeit Network Catering also had at least one bar in a station to make or lose money at (Restaurant na Mara)