Athletics 2023

Lumen

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2023/09/sports-scientists-ross-tucker-and-geoff-burns-react-to-tigst-assefas-amazing-21153-marathon-world-record/

I found this interesting, particularly the wide variation in responses to different shoes.

I'd give you a medal just for reading that absolute snooze fest that wasnt even tested in a proper environment and with limited guinea pigs.

The only sure conclusion I can draw is that you seem to be determined to discredit this womans performance.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169091#Comment_121169091

I'm not discrediting anything, it's a discussion about the effect of shoes involving a respected and well known sports scientist.

If you had read the article you'd see that it doesn't discredit her either. If you're not going to bother reading something, why respond to it?

Weird posting style.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121169777#Comment_121169777

Oh apologies if you're not trying to dicredit her.

I'm sorry as soon as I read that this was conducted in a lab environment with limited people I didnt waste my time reading the rest of it.

Murph_D

It's not discrediting the athlete as much as crediting the shoe tech (with the caveat that we can't know about any single performance for sure because there is such a wide response variation to each shoe).

marathon2022

Tech plays a part but it's not the whole story

The training of professional road running athletes has evolved over the past decade in several ways

Data-driven training,performance analysis. Scientific advancements.

Sports science has made significant strides, leading to a better understanding of physiology, nutrition, and recovery. Athletes benefit from more precise training regimens and tailored nutrition plans.Individualized training by coaches and trainers are increasingly customizing training programs to suit each athlete's unique needs and abilities. Personalized approaches help maximize potential and minimize the risk of overuse injuries.Recovery methods among professional athletes now focus more on recovery strategies like cryotherapy, massage, and compression garments to optimize their training and reduce the risk of burnout.Mental toughness and psychological training have gained importance. Athletes are working with sports psychologists to enhance performance. More athletes are incorporating altitude training camps into their preparation to boost red blood cell count and improve endurance.

Nutrition optimization like fine-tuning their diets to support training, recovery, and performance.

The last 20 years have been amazing for advances and this generation of athletes especially females are seeing the results.

kirk.

Was altitude training debunked

I thought it was could be wrong

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172650#Comment_121172650

I couldn't find anything online to support your suggestion, any idea where you seen this?

kirk.

The track improvements can be explained by wavelite , new tracks and shoes

These random mad times on the road id suspect peds and shoes

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172753#Comment_121172753

Really, you think sports science advances are playing no part in performance improvement?

How prevalent do you think Peds are? Would you reckon the majority of athletes are using them? Jacob Ingabrigtsen is an example of an athlete excelling beyond norms, you think training has no influence on this, it's his shoes maybe.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172808#Comment_121172808

Ys but the recent improvements are mad across the board

I think the only explanation is tech and peds to an extent on the road

Nutrition training advances take longer to evolve imo

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172888#Comment_121172888

Your wrong, Peds or shoes are not solely responsible for improvement in athletic performance on roads.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172992#Comment_121172992

Ya but the track improvements are almost overnite

World records all over

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172575#Comment_121172575

Yikes, ChatGPT again. 👎️

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173049#Comment_121173049

😄 chav gpt ye prick

Murph_D

Charming. 🙄

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173451#Comment_121173451

Now the niceties are over what do you you think about the whole Peds and shoe debate? Would you reckon modern training using data science, sports psychology, nutrition, recovery methods have an influence on the current improvements seen on roads and track? Are core concepts( among many) like the double threshold(Norwegian model), lactate measuring models contributing? Or are you in Kirk's camp? All Peds and shoe?

Lumen

As far as peds are concerned, pro cycling has shown that unless you have a very well organised anti-doping system (whereabouts system, blood passport, controls over supply, uncorrupted state sporting bodies) implemented in both the country of residence of the athlete, and the countries in which they compete, then it is very, very difficult to protect endurance athletes from the pressure to dope.

That's not directed at any athlete in particular, and it in no way removes suspicion from athletes in countries where those controls are in place, it's just the reality.

Of course when the risk factors are pointed out in a sport dominated by athletes from one part of the world there are cries of racism, and that's unfortunate. The only solution is to level-up the controls in those countries to the point where they're credible.

Murph_D

No interest in discussing this with the bots. Anyway it’s been done to death already by the humans.

marathon2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121173715#Comment_121173715

You should stop stalking me so. Run along now

Gazzler82

Re altitude training. Yes. Pretty much debunked

https://spotify.link/xOpsfjBOuDb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174243#Comment_121174243

I'm still seeing the likes of Tinmen elite and Stephen Scullion going to Flagstaff for this type of training. Surely they'd be tapped into the wheres best to train and what the benefits are. The same with the Kenyan workshops for altitude training, still running and doing great business.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121174243#Comment_121174243

Altitude training confounds the biopassport, though, so it's also useful for dopers if they can avoid getting tested while glowing.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25545030/

...

4Ad

https://www.watchathletics.com/schedule/watchlive/7314

yerwanthere123

The reason we're seeing these massive drops in world records has got to be the shoes. Doping is no more or less prominent than it's always been, it's the shoes that's making the biggest difference in recent years.

However, an overlooked factor is the age of athletes running the marathon now. The marathon used to be ran to finish off a track career, now some athletes are moving up much, much earlier. Tigst Assefa is 26 years old, Brigid Kosgei was 25 when she set the record in Chicago. Kelvin Kiptum will be breaking Kipchoge's record soon and likely run inside two hours inside the next couple of years and he's only 23. Tirunesh Dibaba, Cheruiyot and Keitany were all in their early/mid thirties when they ran in the 2:17-2:18 range.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121176968#Comment_121176968

I dont think so, Paula Radcliffe was still in her 20's when she broke the record in London marathon.

Kipchoge is nearly 40 and owns the mens world record several times over (I keep reading that hes mid 40s)

I think the difference is that back in the 80s and 90s we wernt seeing as much competition from the Africans and they have developed

and are competing between themselves as well as against the rest of the world. Most of the records are being set by Africans.

I also agree with Marathon2022, pacing, sports psychology, training camps, advanced studies (proven and legitimate ones) are also moving it along.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121177609#Comment_121177609

I think when it comes to running, the Africans are just better than the rest of us.

Its a genetic, environmental and psychological thing. For sprinting which is mainly usually dominated by USA (African related)and Jamaican athletes, they have the natural physique which is pivotal for sprinting with their glutes and hammers and for distance running the dominant Africans have more natural diets, more difficult terrain to train in and more of a hunger to win plus the size of the country. They are churning these athletes out from extremely difficult and competitive sports camps. Winning for these indiviuals is the difference between having enough money to fund your entire town or farming in difficult land to support your entire family.

yerwanthere123

Wow, Kipyegon beaten in Riga! Welteji takes gold in the women's mile, running a new world record of 4:21. Freweyni Hailu second and Kipyegon only third, maybe just one race too far for Kipyegon at this stage of the season.

Welteji ran 3:53 a few weeks ago and I think she can go even lower than that, so Kipyegon might finally have a rival over 1500.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121180436#Comment_121180436

Looks that way

yerwanthere123

Really looking forward to the Chicago marathon tomorrow. Chepngetich vs Hassan should make for an absorbing affair. Chepngetich will possibly make an attempt on the world record (or at least sub 2:14), and Hassan has said she'll be trying to go with her. Will be fascinating to see it play out.

Kelvin Kiptum vs the clock should be good on the men's side too, although he's slightly playing down expectations. Says he's going for the course record instead of the world record, but if he's feeling good on the day then you never know.

It might not happen on Sunday, but Kiptum will surely break the world record inside the next couple of years, and possibly go sub 2 also.

Will be broadcast on SuperSport Variety 4 from 1.15pm tomorrow, for those of you with access to that channel.

kirk.

I saw that Renato Canova posted on letsrun the other day a cryptic post about kiptum

Implied he may not be running

Wottle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205147#Comment_121205147

Eurosport have highlights at 10pm. Listening to the letsrun podcast and apparently Kiprum has had some setbacks during this training block.

yerwanthere123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205281#Comment_121205281

I honestly didn't know who that was until I googled him just now. Is there any way of verifying that that's actually him, and not just a random poster using his name?

yerwanthere123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205282#Comment_121205282

One of the setbacks apparently being the rainy weather?! I didn't think that would be a factor for an elite athlete in training.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205391#Comment_121205391

I'd say it's probably him , verified account

He gets vilified on Letsrun a fair bit

World class coach but i'd say he's a wind-up merchant re doping .

Wottle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205393#Comment_121205393

Oh I didn't know that was the reason, that's laughable.

yerwanthere123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121205147#Comment_121205147

Just to update this, SuperSport Variety 4 currently has no sound, so I'm now watching on the discovery+ app on my TV. Have shown about ten seconds of the women's race, but plenty of the wheelchair events 😐

Kiptum on 2:01:04 pace at 10k, so he's clearly up for the world record.

yerwanthere123

Hassan and Chepngetich currently running inside Assefa's world record

https://twitter.com/fast_women/status/1711004338573766885?t=Wb9QLsniuvplExiLGMzVNg&s=19

Chepngetich has a history of going out crazy hard and fading in the second half, so let's see how long they'll keep this up.

yerwanthere123

Hassan in the lead through 25k, still on world record pace!

Never mind that though, the women's wheelchair race is obviously much more exciting..

4Ad

Kiptum on for a World Record !! Run Kelvin...

yerwanthere123

This marathon 'coverage' is disgraceful. I've seen about 30 seconds of Sifan Hassan inside the last half hour.

walshb

Chicago finished?

marathon2022

World record, 2.00.35 Kiptum

Amazing

yerwanthere123

Sub 2 won't be long coming. Bet Kipchoge didn't think he'd be beaten this quickly.

4Ad

Wow...Unreal running...delighted for him...

Sub 2.00 on at some stage ???

Unknownability

Incredible run, seemed so in control and like he had more in the tank.

yerwanthere123

2:13:44 for Sifan Hassan! Would've been a world record about three weeks ago. And all this just a few weeks after running the triple in Budapest and medalling at 5000 and 1500m!!

walshb

2 hours is like the 4 minute mile was decades ago!!! Helluva run that today

Lazare

2024 prediction.

Kipchoge will win Olympic gold and pass the GOAT baton.

Kiptum will do a Bannister at Berlin.