Roderic O’G: Transgender issues added to primary curriculum

donaghs · 04-01-2023 2:56pm #1

This guys in the news quite a lot recently.

This seems a bit too far. Is primary a bit too young for this ideology? Certainly “endocrine supports” for young kids seems a bit scary as the changes can be irreversible.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/transgender-issues-should-be-part-of-primary-curriculum-says-childrens-minister-roderic-ogorman-42256827.html

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Mad_maxx · 04-01-2023 2:59pm

I’ve discussed this with several local parents, we are going to make such a scene if this comes to pass

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-01-2023 3:04pm

Just to be clear: he's advocating making primarcy shcool children AWARE of what transgender means: he's NOT endorsing giving endochrine supports (or any other form of medication pr treatment) with primary school kids!

Blind As A Bat · 04-01-2023 3:06pm

It would probably just be for fifth and sixth class but I don't agree with it and I don't think it's fair to expect teachers to tackle it either.

Be right back · 04-01-2023 3:06pm

Jeez, could they just leave kids be kids? Secondary school would be enough for them to learn about those issues?

AnnieinDundrum · 04-01-2023 3:07pm

its complex and I haven’t read the proposed lessons for each year,

seems like a good idea to include it, in an age appropriate way. The kids will be aware may as well inform them that people change their gender. Some will come across it in their lives, others may not.

i think the description of teaching ´issues’ is a bit misleading, telling 4 year olds simple facts, people change, isn’t an ´issue ´ IMO.

the medical area is beyond my expertise, I only know one transgender teenager so I can’t comment

Hodors Appletart · 04-01-2023 3:08pm

It's already taught to my child in 2nd class, I've no issue with it. He knows what all of the LGBT+ things mean, at a fairly rudimentary level. He's in a mixed gender class, in an Educate Together school.

I think people who want to cause a "scene" about this are misguided at best.

Hodors Appletart · 04-01-2023 3:11pm

I'd love to hear from the people who've commented already in this thread, in what way do you believe my child, or his peers, to be damaged, confused, "poisoned" etc?

He's a well adjusted person, kind to everyone he meets, and we've been told that he has a pretty well developed sense of fairness. He's an intelligent kid, reading at a decent level, excellent at maths, struggles a bit with his handwriting but I don't think that's because he knows what a transgender person is.

Cyrus · 04-01-2023 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058278165/roderic-o-g-transgender-issues-added-to-primary-curriculum

let parents teach their kids about transgenderism if they wish but i don't see why it needs to be part of the school curriculum, are we to educate children on every tiny minority they may or may not come across?

Transgender issues appear to have an outsized voice and media coverage in comparison to the number of people who identify as transgender.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-01-2023 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064599#Comment_120064599

I'm of the opinion that they want tinnocent kids when what they actually want is ignorant kids. But they forget that we're talking 11-12 year olds with internet access. This isn't the happy-go-lucky idealistic 80s any more. They already pretty much know and if they don't they can find out on their own.

Teach them the basics, move on. It doesn't have to be a philosophy or an agenda and it doesn't even have to take up more than an afternoon or two.

donaghs · 04-01-2023 3:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064578#Comment_120064578

That’s possible. It’s only outlined in vague terms. As with many changes the devil is in the details. Even so I don’t see the need to explain to primary school children about what transgender is. We are talking about a tiny percentage of the population, and I’m not sure what the burning importance is of informing primary kids.

Also given that most gender dysphoria in kids is temporary, there is a danger in introducing an ideology which encourages kids to think that’s it’s their actual life identity.

”studies state that the majority of children diagnosed with gender dysphoria did not desire to be the other sex by puberty, with most growing up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, with or without therapeutic intervention.”

https://journals.lww.com/co-psychiatry/Abstract/2015/11000/Gender_dysphoria_in_children_and_adolescents__a.6.aspx

silverharp · 04-01-2023 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064578#Comment_120064578

if you incessantly made young kids aware of suicide, there would be more suicide in young kids, whatever is at the front of attention is more likely to happen. You will just end up encouraging more kids on the spectrum, "tomboys" and young boys who might be gay to make a non issue like gender to be a thing.

Hodors Appletart · 04-01-2023 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064632#Comment_120064632

yeah, they are taught about loads of different religions too, taught about them, not instructed in them. They learn about refugees from different parts of the world, different cultures are celebrated at the appropriate time of the year (including St Patrick's day, shock horror right?)

And, as it happens, yeah myself and my wife have spoken to him about such things as gay rights, pride, transgender people, nonbinary etc - we haven't really spoken about sexuality yet, he's probably still a bit young for that - he knows the basics about reproduction.

Dyr · 04-01-2023 3:17pm

Thats what happens when you accept errant nonsense on the grounds of compassion, unsavoury types will take advantage

I see RTE pretending that the US executed a woman on death row today.

donaghs · 04-01-2023 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064672#Comment_120064672

getting off topic here. But you haven’t discussed “sexuality”, but have discussed gay rights pride etc. I.e. “same sex attraction”? You do know that that’s what homosexuality is, versus heterosexuality?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 04-01-2023 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064666#Comment_120064666

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064648#Comment_120064648

Even so I don’t see the need to explain to primary school children about what transgender is.

I answered that: they're going to find out. Best do it in an informed classroom,

@silverharp - with all due respect, that's scaremongering bullshit.

They know what suicide is. I know when I was 10 and believe me, I'm not young. They don't go 'oh cool! Let's try that!" just because someone mentions it in aclassroom.

kowloon · 04-01-2023 3:22pm

I think I was in sixth class when we had someone explain the birds and the bees to us. We knew a lot of it already. I'd say today's kids with internet access know more than their parents.

Cyrus · 04-01-2023 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064672#Comment_120064672

you haven't spoken about sexuality yet but you have about gay rights, pride and transgender, must have been some conversational tight rope you were walking.

AnnieinDundrum · 04-01-2023 3:25pm

So do you wait until there’s a kid with 2 daddies or a kid with 2 mummies before you mention homosexuality? And how does that work?

and if your kid goes on a play date to a house with 2 daddies, one of whom used to be mummy, do you go along and interrogate them in advance or raise it at school?

where will you make a scene?

Cyrus · 04-01-2023 3:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064696#Comment_120064696

i don't think it's scaremongering bullshit, young kids are impressionable, i certainly wouldn't want any in depth discussion on suicide in school, just because it didn't impact you doesn't mean it won't impact someone else.

why do all these forums that glorify eating disorders and suicidal thoughts stay in existence?

Hodors Appletart · 04-01-2023 3:27pm

nah, the easy way to explain to a child about hetero v homosexuality is

some men/women "want to marry" men, some men/women "want to marry" women, or "want a girlfriend" - there's no need to bring the sexual act into it really, not until a later time.

The way to explain transgenderism is really easy too, some people who, when they are born, look like boys might have a girls brain and want to dress or do the things girls do, or live as if they were a girl, and that's ok.

from there you can get into intricacies as they get older.

The real lesson at that age is one of acceptance, not necessarily a full understanding.

AnnieinDundrum · 04-01-2023 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064666#Comment_120064666

Incessantly?

and why are you linking suicide with teaching about gender?

Cyrus · 04-01-2023 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064723#Comment_120064723

depending on the age of the kid they probably won't notice, if they are old enough to notice you can explain it to them. Why would anyone need to make a scene?

donaghs · 04-01-2023 3:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064723#Comment_120064723

Given the tiny tiny percentage of people involved in such scenarios, I think most people can cross that bridge when they come to it. The parents will know the other parents and can have the chat with their kids.

Hodors Appletart · 04-01-2023 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064735#Comment_120064735

at least one person on this thread as said they will be making a scene, so that question is probably best directed at them

silverharp · 04-01-2023 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064733#Comment_120064733

On the net, social media, on TV and now in schools, a 5 year old kid does not need to be exposed to these ideas, it cant do them any good and only harm

osarusan · 04-01-2023 3:30pm

It all depends on how it's addressed in the classroom.

Just as there's nothing wrong with highlighting that different religions exist as long as pressing any particular religion on the kids is avoided, I think there's nothing wrong with just highlighting that different sexual preferences and identities exist.