Roderic O’G: Transgender issues added to primary curriculum

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068938#Comment_120068938

If anyone gave a shite about indoctrinating children with shite information we would have a serious discussion about the about of time spent pedalling middle eastern fairy stories in our schools.

S if a tiny amount of time by comparison is spent explaining in a reasonable fashion to children about actual real people in the world around them then I don't see how that could be a negative.

But outside of the wailers and woe'ers and those shrieking wont someone think of the children like a Simpsons meme on repeat I haven't seen anyone present any actual evidence of something dangerous being suggested to be thought to the children.

So one more time,

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069091#Comment_120069091

No child ever was subject to homophobic abuse or bullying or subject to abuse or bullying that questioned their masculinity / femininity prior to these subjects being discussed eh?

In the real world, being informed has lead to younger people being more tolerant of differences. Children can be cruel and have always and will always find ways to subject fellow children to cruelty, however you will find the instances of children being bullied, victimised and suffering mental health issues due to their actual or perceived sexuality has massively reduced since society actually started talking about these issues in a rationale manner.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069163#Comment_120069163

It is there for everyone to see, thats not a scientific proof of anything.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069232#Comment_120069232

I'm not a scientist, it's fascinating stuff, but I'm sure if you read the links, they'll answer your query.

FWIW, my belief is in 3 sexes (M/F/Intersex) and gender as a social construct.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069260#Comment_120069260

Any reason you want to offer up that you didn't supply the full quote? It is there for everyone to see of course, it just might not fit your narrative...

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069266#Comment_120069266

That is fine but there needs to be some internationally agreed definitions. Even as a starting point which can be modified down the line. Belief isn’t enough as there can be limitless different beliefs. Until definitions are available confusion is inevitable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069302#Comment_120069302

I don't think it will be possible. Don't forget there's entire countries that officially "don't have" any gay people in them.

I don't even think that it's universally agreed that sexuality is a spectrum.

PeterPan92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068609#Comment_120068609

You do realize that the curriculum doesn't denote exactly what content to cover? It more covers what skills they should develop. I was able to achieve curricular objectives while simultaneously covering this content. They aren't mutually exclusive.

The INTO run the "Different Families, Same Love" competition, which inspired me to cover the topic in my class. As a teacher union, I can assure you they know the curriculum and what can be covered safely within a primary school better than some rando on boards.ie

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069318#Comment_120069318

Europe and the US could take a lead on this. People will always fear what they don’t understand. From what I can see even the transgender community are a long way off agreeing on the very basics.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068930#Comment_120068930

The basics of transgenderism and that it exists, there's even childrens books about it that talk about it in a non-sexual way, there is curriculum guidelines and a primary teachers own comments on how they taught it above. Still feeling triggered or do you want to start going into your pronouns? If you are triggered, ask for your kids to be excluded.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069091#Comment_120069091

You seem deathly afraid of the world around you, the benefits have been gone over multiple times, are you stuck in a feedback loop? Is it shouty time like you do on the other threads yet? I guess you at least now follow the science for vaccinations and pandemics rather than looking for alternative facts.

And seriously, the level of detail at primary school will be at the "this thing exists and here is some examples", the science here is still evolving and will continue to evolve as every aspect of science continues to evolve (and I also realise that "evolving" could be a trigger word here, let's push through).

What proof do you have kids being told what transgender is will lead to less bullying.

There is less bullying due to being lgb these days, it would follow (beware the trigger) scientifically that spreading knowing on the tq+ area will also reduce bullying, unless you have an alternative fact to say otherwise.

(and I am being facetious here, you are delving deep into the gutter, again)

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069177#Comment_120069177

Am I reading that correct, I assume I am not.

Your friends transitioned a 2 year old.

I really hope I am taking that up wrong.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069356#Comment_120069356

Here's a glossary from the UN HCR: https://www.unhcr.org/6163eb9c4.pdf Is that the kind of thing you mean?

Maybe you can give an example of some disagreements regarding terminology.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069409#Comment_120069409

My friend transitioned, NOT his daughter. Wow.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069240#Comment_120069240

Google detransitioners, or look them up on Youtube, listen to their horrific stories. Then come back and tell us there is no evidence of danger.

Guess_Who

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068904#Comment_120068904

Oh I agree.

But I am just giving my best guess as to why there is a push for it to be taught as "normal" to children.

It is by no metric "normal" but as we have seen, words only have meanings when it suits.

Backstreet Moyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069447#Comment_120069447

Got it i misread

Guess_Who

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069397#Comment_120069397

It does exist.

Should kids be told its normal to hear voices in their head because paranoid schizophrenia exists?

Should kids be told that it's absolutely usual to have webbed feet because some kids are born with them?

Should kids be taught that it's normal to feel body dysmorphia because anorexia exists?

If everything is normalised, then there is no normal.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069441#Comment_120069441

A lot of good stuff there. Some of it I would say is not widely agreed yet. It talks about gender being assigned which is fine but it also talks about sex being assigned at birth. It’s not widely agreed by doctors and scientists that sex is assigned rather than observed. Also, no clear definitions there on what is a woman or a man. So, it needs a bit of adjustment and needs to be agreed with the medical and scientific community.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069538#Comment_120069538

Yes.

Imagine a world with less people being called, "freaks". How tragic?

As for everything else, absolutely.

Webbed toes, completely normal but rare.

Hearing voices in your head as normal? Absolutely, again, normal, but rare and taught at the right age to process the information and to discuss mental health.

Feel body dysmorphia? Absolutely! And body dysmorphia is absolutely normal, albeit in degrees. Can you imagine how many lives would be saved if what they were going through wasn't treated as some shameful aspect of their lives, and instead could get treatment openly about it?!

Guess_Who

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069574#Comment_120069574

I never once called anyone a "freak". They are your words.

It's absolutely not normal to have webbed feet, not normal to suffer from schizophrenia and not normal to be anorexic.

It is also not normal to feel you are born the wrong sex.

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069538#Comment_120069538

Should kids not be told those things exist because it makes some adults uncomfortable?

And to take it further:

Should we never talk about mental health resulting in the adolescent who starts "hearing voices" being too afraid to talk about it resulting in them not getting the treatment they need?

Should we not make children aware that there are perfectly "normal" conditions that cause a small number people to have webbed feet and therefore if you are a child with webbed feet it is nothing to be ashamed of or if someone in your class has it is not something to make a big deal of?

Should children be encouraged to discuss their feelings about their own body rather than repress those feelings and potentially develop body dysmorphia and anorexia?

This is a bizarre world people are calling for where not talking about things is seen as the healthier environment.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069574#Comment_120069574

What am I reading? None of those things are normal by the definition of normal. Why oh why do we have to keep changing the meaning of words to suit modernist views? It's ridiculous. Everything you've mentioned is abnormal. Why aren't you simply arguing that not all abnormalities should be treated with scorn, instead of trying to change the meaning of normal?

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069397#Comment_120069397

Thats a ten minute lesson then. Over the course of an 8 year primary curriculum I suppose ten minutes isn't much to spend on the topic.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069654#Comment_120069654

Fair cop on using the word, "freak". It is my word, and a word commonly used to those who don't fit what some describe as, "normal".

Can I blow your little bitty mind here for a minute and tell you that maybe telling people they are abnormal (my word, but I assume it's ok to use?) Isn't particularly helpful to them?

What they are experiencing is normal, (but here's the important bit!) RARE and nothing to be ashamed of.

Guess_Who

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069661#Comment_120069661

Again, thats not what I said.

They exist. It's just not normal.

I don't think that an amorphous amount of genders being taught as "normal" to primary children as in any way healthy.

Should we advocate that it is body shaming that gloves have five fingers because its absolutely normal for children to have six fingers?

Guess_Who

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069712#Comment_120069712

Call it rare. Thats a fair compromise. But don't call it normal.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069667#Comment_120069667

Because they're normal to the people suffering from them...

When I was a kid in national school we played Star Wars in the playground,

Nobody was Gay, Straight, or Trans, we were kids, and we knew nothing about sexuality, nor did we care.

Even when we did have a sex ed class it was meh, still, nobody cared.

The Sexualization of children over recent years is worrying, There are no logical reasons for it, but I am sure there is a reason for it.

Guess_Who

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069724#Comment_120069724

That's not what normal means.

Unless you are advocating that children should adhere to THEIR realities.

And if thats the case, I don't think thats healthy

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120069724#Comment_120069724

That's a bizarre reason line of reasoning. They are suffering from abnormalities, even if it is a constant in their lives. Normal isn't defined by one, it's defined by the whole. The fact that you used the word suffering too is revealing, as they are suffering because what they are inflicted with exists outside of norms.