Roderic O’G: Transgender issues added to primary curriculum

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071328#Comment_120071328

You can’t be a woman if you’re not a woman. That’s not an opinion. That’s scientific fact. Anymore than you can be a penguin or a jet ski.

Teachers have no more or less authority or insight on this than anyone else and in fact I find teachers mostly arrogant and obnoxious and with little idea of real life. They think they’re leaders, they’re babysitters.

You can have your delusion and you’re free to live your life but keep your propaganda away from other peoples kids. That’s where we draw the line.

SEPT 23 1989

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071015#Comment_120071015

Again I suggest

put the money into child mental health services

kids on the spectrum ADHD etc are lost in the dark at that age very open to suggestion seeking desperately to identify with something

and in walks this into the classroom

Large bottle small glass

The Tavistock was very revealing on this issue.

If you look up the interviews of the leading mental health experts working there prior to it being shut down you'll see that the treatment changed very substantially over a 20 year period.

Typically patients presenting had co morbidities in terms of their mental health including gender dysphoria. They were subject to a multi disciplinary investigation before any treatment if any was given.

Often the gender dysphoria was the minor issue.

Of late the treatment provided changed and was often very quick in providing surgical and pharmacy interventions to children as young as 8.

For a medical treatment in cardiology, neurology or any other branch to change there needs to be a rigourous scientific process followed which is peer reviewed and trialled.

The investigation commissioned by the UK government was really clear that the treatment provided to children (including Irish children) was NOT done so on the basis of any peer reviewed evidence as to whether it was appropriate.

This is alarming stuff and anyone who isn't alarmed by this is putting an ideology they have signed up for above the health and well being of kids they champion.

We should be really interested in how such a change in treatment was allowed to occur.

Inter sex is real, gender dysphoria as a disorder is real but most of the gender ideology pushed in the west is prime post modern horsh1te which has taken of late

BoxcarWilliam99

Roderick posed for pictures all hugs and smiles with Peter Tatchell. He has denied this and claimed he didn't know about Tatchells disgusting vocal opinions

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071328#Comment_120071328

That’s a lot of words to say absolutely nothing.

thegame983

Tell children how babies are made then get back to maths/ history/ geography

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071315#Comment_120071315

You think you can fool a brain scan?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071242#Comment_120071242

There's 3 sexes (Male, Female, Intersex) and gender is a social construct.

(Maybe you didn't stick around for the full lesson 😜)

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120068120#Comment_120068120

The idea that people are born gay, or know that they are gay from a very young age, was not at all well accepted in the 70s and 80s. The erroneous argument that children and teens couldn't actually be gay because they hadn't matured yet was also very common.

There is no acceptance that gay people were 'born gay' today either. I'm telling you that as a homosexual who believes ('cuz I can't prove it) that I wasn't 'born gay'. The whole born gay thing for me was always a metaphor for "I am what I am" and not to be taken literally. I have previously argued that what difference does it make anyway if I became gay in my sexual developmental age to maturing age the end result is still that same, that there is noting I can do about it and it's not causing anyone any harm. Also if one is really born gay it could be genitally engineered out and who likes that idea, my belief says it's not possible to genetically engineer it away, and I much prefer that idea.

Gayness was wrongly thought of as a choice, a decision or maybe something that "happened" to people because of damaging life experience or influence - we see the exact same attitudes to trans identity today.

Yeah that is true and it sounds somewhat like what I believe except for the part where whatever the reason for it is because of some damaging life experience or influence. I'm don't agree with that part at all.

Plenty of transgender people say that they knew they were transgender from a very young age - even of they didn't have the word for it at the time or fully understand the feeling. We should listen to them.

That's what they say, like some gay people say, but that's not quite accurate. What they really mean is retrospectively they can say that but not at the age of 3 or 4. I know from anecdotal accounts, like from for example British broadcaster Matthew Stadlin that he in his youth thought he may be gay but when he matured turned out he's straight. So he can't say he knew he was gay or straight at even 14/15 because he clearly wasn't sure. This to me supports what I believe, that as some age in youth there is what I call a 'wobbly bit' in one's sexual development age that some experience some don't but you can't say finalize what you are until you have matured, and some people mature at difference ages so there's no deadline at which one must declare your orientation.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071638#Comment_120071638

Are you pretending that men that claim they're women now have different brains?

I see you're selling the third sex nonsense too.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071015#Comment_120071015

I strongly suspect that as the science gets tighter we will indeed find Trans individuals to have Intersex brains.

After a few years of being involved in these gender wars debates I strongly suspect science won't find any such thing. I'm utter convinced of it.

I do not believe that anyone was born in the wrong body I believe that socially one has become fascinated for whatever reason in the the social gender opposite to the one was born and fixate about living out that role, socially. I base this unprovable claim on everything I have witnessed over the last few years.

It may very well be that brain scans can reveal some reason for that, but the explanation won't be that one is born in the wrong body i.e have intersex brains.

However I further and equally strongly suspect that the percentage found will be significantly lower than the currently guestimated and presenting Trans numbers today. The latter morre driven by current social forces and conflation of things like autism spectrum/ADHD/sexuality in many individuals. EG those who present as autistic are nearly eight times more likely to be gender diverse too.

I have noticed a lot of people in the LGBT+ demographic (emphasis on +) have eccentric personalities and not being an expert in behavioural science would also put this down to things like mild autism/ADHD etc, leading some to come out as non-binary and so on. It's also neatly explains why some people we would call queens, flamboyant, camp and so on exist. Like it's not just because they're 'gay' as if being gay has a personality type that goes with it. Note also, the media highly promote those kinds of people of late for effect. You hardly ever see an average gay man on television these days.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071892#Comment_120071892

Intersex is real. It has been documented many, many times over. I would love to know how you would describe a being born with both genitals. It's as real in the animal world as it is in the human world.

I don't think there's any point engaging with you further, I don't believe you'll offer anything near a good faith argument.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071647#Comment_120071647

I was nodding in agreement until I got to "gender is a social construct".

It's as if these catchphrases are just etched into the minds of some people to the point they appropriate them as fact.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071647#Comment_120071647

And this is the kind of thing they want to teach to primary school kids. Lies and ideological propaganda.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071929#Comment_120071929

Birth defects happen unfortunately, in both humans and animals. Pretending it’s a third gender is delusional.

thinkabouit

Around 14 pages here so far and nothing but back and forth arguments.

Nobody can agree on anything because of the complexity of it

Exactly why schools, governments & other institutions shouldn’t be left anywhere near it

Imagine having two maths teachers teaching your kids that 1 + 1 = 2

while the other teacher says 1 + 1 = 5 or whatever you want it to be.

jam_mac_jam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071929#Comment_120071929

Nobody is born with two sets of genitals. You may need to read up on the subject as I imagine you are being quite offensive to people born with disorders of sexual development. They are not a third sex and may not be happy being referred to as such.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071647#Comment_120071647

“Gender is a social construct” - who was it that introduced as a social construct and why??

Clue: he was a sick fcuk.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072285#Comment_120072285

Nobody can agree on anything because of the complexity of it

Nobody has to agree on anything in order for whatever they want to be taught, or not, in primary school education. People are getting bogged down here in the nitty gritty of it, but that’s not how it’s taught in the classroom in the Irish schools in which children are already learning about it.

The complexity of anything certainly isn’t a reason why children shouldn’t learn about something, and it’s complexity is the very reason why schools, Governments and other institutions are discussing it and discussing how they should teach children about it, and what is to be taught to children.

That way it minimises the risk of a teacher going off the reservation and imagining that they are entitled to refer to children however they wish, in spite of their employers policies which prohibit that sort of behaviour. It doesn’t entirely eliminate the prospect, but the teacher is at least fully aware that they are in breach of their employers policies.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071929#Comment_120071929

Intersex is not "being born with both genitals". That's a total bloody nonsense. True hermaphroditism is vanishingly rare and is less about Intersex conditions and far more about twin absorption in the womb. If you had even the basic knowledge of how genitals are formed in the first place you'd know this was a nonsense. FYI, in very basic terms they're formed from the same starting points. The clitoris is the penis, the testes the ovaries. Men even have the "stitch line" on their sack where the vaginal opening closed up. So to be "born with both genitals" would require a duplication of both starting points and a duplication of both and different triggers for genital development in the womb.

Intersex covers a range of conditions, from ambiguous single genitalia to genetic mashups of XXY, many of which aren't even spotted unless tested. Oh and interestingly actual Intersex people are very rare in the Trans group. The majority and I mean the overwhelming majority of Trans individuals are not Intersex, don't have ambiguous genitals and are physically perfectly *trigger warning* normal men and women.

As for your brain differences and Trans mentioned earlier? Years back researchers went looking for the "Gay gene" and "Gay brain" and found much going on in the latter. Just one study of a number https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex/ In essence Gay men had regions of the brain more like Straight women, Gay women had regions of the brain more like Straight men. This was even seen in a surprising way in fingerprints of all things. Straight men show more asymmetry in fingerprint whorls between left and right hands, Gay men show more symmetry, as do Straight women.

Does this mean Gay people are Trans? Of course it doesn't. Though I strongly suspect a fair number of Trans people are quite simply Gay kids, confused about their sexuality, looking to "fit in" somewhere, who latch onto the very current Trans ideology, or indeed have a parent or parents that buys into this. If they're also on the spectrum and already feel uncomfortable in their skin in adolescence that adds more on top.

Putting this highly dubious and recent ideology into classrooms is not going to be helpful for them. It wouldn't matter a jot if medical interventions weren't in play and it would be just another passing trend in society and the kids would grow up and out or into their own lives. However a child who becomes a teenager buying into this who then decides to medically transition at a time in development where their brains, personalities and sexuality aren't even fully formed is not reversible. That's a major bloody problem. IMHO there will come a time and it won't be so long in coming either where this ideology will be seen as the half baked and damaging bollocks it is.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071851#Comment_120071851

That makes no sense

When discussing trans peoples experiences growing up you used a gay man as an example.

chopperbyrne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071647#Comment_120071647

Intersex/DSD conditions are not third sexes. They are variations of male and female.

https://twitter.com/SebastianPott10/status/1481761041734422529?s=20&t=iigM-qG4tTIupD4WsLjZcQ

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072285#Comment_120072285

There is no complexity to it, there is just dogmatic ideology and old fashioned common sense

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072285#Comment_120072285

Not everything taught in school can be simplified to 1+1=2.

History for example has many interpretations. Do we choose not to teach history because there are elements where the facts are not agreed.

And based on your "insight", should we not immediately stop teaching religion also?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072480#Comment_120072480

Oh. He speaks in CAPS, I MUST TRUST HIS JUDGEMENT SO.

Someone (we'll stick with humans I suppose, even though it's more common in the animal kingdom) born intersex is male AND female.

They are neither male, not female. They do not fit in to a binary system.

Does this person think grey exists? Or is it JUST BLACK AND WHITE.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072444#Comment_120072444

Post should be pinned to the start of the thread. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

circadian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120070298#Comment_120070298

"We live in a more tolerant and welcoming society,"

Do we? This thread would suggest otherwise with a fair amount of posters spouting ignorant shite ranging from (and I'm quoting you here) "perverted or abnormal behaviours" to claiming that it's not real or that they don't exist.

There is nothing sexual being suggested in explaining that some people have two dads, some people have two mums, some peoples mums used to be a boy or vice versa. Explain to me what is inherently sexual about that? Is it sexual to point out someone has a mum and dad?

The entire reasoning is to normalise the fact that not all families are the same, and if someone comes from a different family that this is fine and bullying, ridicule should be discouraged. Best way to do this? Education.

Guess_Who

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120070039#Comment_120070039

I believe there are two primary sexes, male and female (intersex being an anomaly and almost in every case there is a prevailing sex which can be identified)

I believe there are an infinite amount of genders, with more being created daily. You only have to look at the abomination of the flag that they use now to see how out of hand it is. I think that each "gender" is as valid as the next.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072582#Comment_120072582

That’s a birth defect. It isn’t a “third sex” nor is it anything to do with transgenderism.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072652#Comment_120072652

You could have also gone with basement dwellers, virgins, can't get laid etc. The Daily Mail thing was a tad obvious.