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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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    #3602
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165488#Comment_120165488

    No.

    He spoke publicly at the private mass gathering before he was suspended. Many walked out. The Principal informed him it wasnt the time or place. He pursued the matter. Following this he was suspended pending investigation.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3603
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166246#Comment_120166246

    Teenagers when they hear a teacher allegedly shout at the principal, I would have thought.



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    #3604
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166261#Comment_120166261

    He has the right to free speech, but there are limits particularly in the workplace. I can't expect to get away with calling my customers sh1theads in the workplace, even when they are sh1theads. He needs to do his job as a teacher, treating his students with respect, or GTFO.



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    #3605
    Magnolia Hissing Youth
    Posts: 0 ✭ Magnolia Hissing Youth


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166295#Comment_120166295

    And the dinner afterwards..

    he was suspended because of those incidents. He did not become belligerent after suspension it was before. Twice. In the same evening.



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    #3606
    Magnolia Hissing Youth
    Posts: 0 ✭ Magnolia Hissing Youth


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166307#Comment_120166307

    Like the old saying

    you can have freedom of speech, but the rest of have freedom to ignore you.

    also is it just me or do people who don’t have a clue tend to be ones shouting about “free speech!”

    for the record guys, if this is your line of thinking please understand freedom of speech and the press means the government can’t lock you up for what you say/think.. that’s not to say you can’t be punished by your workplace and whatnot.

    oh and before it’s said he was jailed for contempt of court. Not his beliefs.



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    #3607
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165660#Comment_120165660

    I think given that he never taught the student in question that yes an acceptable compromise for all may have been possible.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3608
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,678 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120152864#Comment_120152864

    priests

    Now it's perfectly obvious that you're just taking the absolute píss

    Priests are sooo respected in contemporary Ireland that most of them won't dare wear priestly garb when off duty. And tbh the organisation they choose to continue to be part of has only itself to blame for that.

    Can't be arsed trawling through your posts but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if in other threads you were railing against the very notion of "hate speech" when it suited you. Well the so-called free speech advocates need to learn that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from the consequences of that speech. Or freedom from others exercising their right to criticise them - as harshly as they like, right, cause free speech? or does freedom of speech only apply to people you like?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #3609
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,897 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166232#Comment_120166232

    That's now how it works. It just isn't.



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    #3610
    archermoo
    Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭archermoo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166232#Comment_120166232

    Are you sure that the policy he violated was not in place when he was hired? I'm pretty sure the school would have dismissed anyone who verbally abused and physically intimidated the principal to the point that other staff had to physically interpose themselves since well before he was hired.



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    #3611
    Magnolia Hissing Youth
    Posts: 0 ✭ Magnolia Hissing Youth


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166319#Comment_120166319

    Well that implies it was a request. There was no request made. Burke was being informed about what he is expected to do, as all staff, per school policies.

    So, no, he absolutely couldn’t have been let away with not doing it. You can disagree with it if you want but you must not disobey workplace policies. Anyone who’s had a job for longer than a week will understand this.



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    #3612
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166274#Comment_120166274

    He isn't juggling anything though.

    The school has a set of policies and procedures.

    Enoch has refused to engage or recognise neither the policies not the procedures.

    He is insisting that only his viewpoint is correct and everyone else should comply with him - Maybe acceptable if it was his school but it isn't, he's an employee.

    If he disagrees with a School policy then their is an official process for him to raise his concerns and have them addressed.

    He might not like how they choose to address them , but the process must be followed first and then he could take it from there.

    Enoch ignored the processes and simply repeatedly berated the Principal insisting that he was right and everybody else was wrong leading to his initial suspension for misconduct.

    Set aside the thing Enoch was complaining about and imagine this scenario.

    Next Monday morning your boss announces that instead of your working hours being 9-5 they are now 4 am to midday or whatever.

    Now , you disagree with that for a bunch of reasons which is perfectly valid - How would you deal with that situation?

    A normal person might talk to their Union rep if applicable or maybe the HR department and you'd also raise a formal complaint about the change in terms & conditions and take it through the process to come to a resolution.

    What you almost certainly wouldn't do is chase your boss around the office roaring at them and refuse to stop roaring when asked to or even when other members of staff physically try to restrain you from doing so.

    If you did that , you'd be suspended and disciplined as per the company policy - Not because you didn't want to start work at 4 am , but for shouting and roaring at your boss in the office.



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    #3613
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165823#Comment_120165823

    No. Thats disingenuous. He didnt teach the student so was forced to do nothing.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3614
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166307#Comment_120166307

    I agree with you 100%. But like I said in my post, my comment isn't in relation to Burke. It's in relation to free speech. I'm fine with Burke being censored for going ballistic in the school but if he wanted to talk to anybody foolish enough to listen to him in Main Street, Castlebar, or online, then I'd defend his right to do that.............even though I 100% don't agree with his message.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166279#Comment_120166279

    Not necessarily. The general public quite often don't get to decide what's allowed or not allowed. There's no consultation on a rake of laws introduced by our elected representatives. There's plenty of unpopular laws on the books that the public don't agree with. And the general public aren't always right either.



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    #3615
    Viscount Aggro
    Registered Users Posts: 1,219 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166281#Comment_120166281

    Inclusivity, but preference is given to COI applicants.



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    #3616
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,843 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166279#Comment_120166279

    That may have been the case at one point, but given we live in an era of "Confidence and Supply" and back-room Coalition deals, coupled with a cohort of politicians who seem to be guided more by Twitter trends than constituents (how many posts have there been on this forum in various threads about generic replies to genuine queries - if there's a reply at all!), you'd have to ask are the laws and policies being proposed in some cases actually representative of our democratic will anymore?



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    #3617
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166056#Comment_120166056

    Huh?

    It is a posh boarding school

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3618
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166281#Comment_120166281

    This is the ethos of the school. The part about dignity and respect for the individual is the bit Burke is incapable of.

    "Faithful to the Last Will and Testament of Andrew Wilson, made in 1724, Wilson’s Hospital School maintains a distinctive Church of Ireland ethos, fostering Christian practice and teaching, promoting dignity and respect for the individual and constantly committed to the provision of a caring family atmosphere in which education can flourish."



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    #3619
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166232#Comment_120166232

    Have you some evidence of this? School policies for 4 or 5 years ago?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3620
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166306#Comment_120166306

    Lol. Its been reported extensively. Get over it. Enough with all the nonsense and drivel it didnt happen cause noone took their phone out to record it.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3621
    DownByTheGarden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    The man has nothing else to do now. The only way to put a stop to it is fine him every day he turns up.

    He will never get another job in Ireland, nor any of the other members of his family either at this point.

    What a family of idiots.



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    #3622
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I doubt that any school has a policy that explicitly says "You will use gender neutral pro-nouns when requested" , but I'd be pretty confident that they all have something in there about "Equal treatment regardless of faith, race or gender etc." and "treat colleagues and pupils with dignity and respect".

    I'd also be confident to say that that form of words will have been in the school policies for a very very long time.



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    #3623
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166382#Comment_120166382

    Easy tiger.

    There are many remarkable things about this situation, not least of which is the fact that the confrontation between Burke and the Principal, where he is alleged to have shouted and chased after her, happened in front of a church full of teenagers, and there isn’t one video of it online. I bet that can’t be said to often for events of interest or out of the ordinary.



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    #3624
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166405#Comment_120166405

    Actually, that part happened at the dinner venue after the church ceremony.

    Unsure if pupils were invited to attend that part of the evening.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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    #3625
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,607 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166405#Comment_120166405

    Burke interrupted the church service, which the students were also at. There was then a meal, which students were also at. However, the confrontation with the principal allegedly happened after the meal, and while the principal was trying to leave. There's no confirmation that it happened in front of any pupils.



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    #3626
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    I don't agree with his behaviour at all. He had a High Court judge saying he would grant an injunction to the hearing but he blew that olive branch. He has a chance at the WRC for unfair dismissal if the school has not followed correct process, which is a possibility. It would be a pryric victory for him at this stage.



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    #3627
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    What is it with this thread and banned posters continuing to post

    Is this a normal thing or do we just have a lot of Enoch impersonators?



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    #3628
    chosen1
    Registered Users Posts: 415 ✭✭chosen1


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120165937#Comment_120165937

    I know for a fact that a similar thing happened in a school a few years ago. I was a teacher in a neighbouring school and was living with a teacher from that school at the time.

    They didn't quite build a toilet, but they closed down a disability toilet and reassigned it gener neutral for that student.

    The long and short of it was that the male child who the parents kicked up a fuss to get him recognised as a girl, changed back to being a girl a couple of years later. Apparently the parents who I'd guess hung out too much on Twitter decided that their son was female after playing with girls toys when young. When he was old enough to actually think for himself, he himself identified by his birth gender.

    I can't but feel sorry for that young lad who no doubt has permanent mental damage from the entire episode.



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    #3629
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166405#Comment_120166405

    Not everyone will grab their phone to video things for Tik Tok. This isn't a mall in America.



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    #3630
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166538#Comment_120166538

    Give me a break, teenagers whip out their phones for much less than a teacher publicly making an ass of himself.



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    #3631
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166405#Comment_120166405

    Do you see many people with their phones out at church services?


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120166344#Comment_120166344

    There may be other work related limitations on free speech. For example, civil servants are banned from making public pronouncements on anything vaguely political. Many work contracts have a broad clause about not doing anything that would bring the employer into disrepute.

    All very standard limitations on free speech.



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