Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

Purple Mountain

I'd wager that there are many teachers and pupils in WHS who attend there but are non faith believers.

Most of us had no choice but to attend schools affiliated or under the patronage of either a Catholic or COI body because that's just the way Ireland is.

My point is, how many staff/pupils in the school where Enoch teaches had to attend Mass, ceremonies, listen to the principal recite prayers at assembly sometimes, etc etc even though in their head/heart it went against what they believe.

Yet people do it out of respect (your environment) or necessity (how many non denominational schools are there in Ireland!?).

That's just life. Sometimes we might not agree/believe in what we see/hear but unless it's a danger to ourselves or others to keep quiet, out of respect we don't rock the boat.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180445#Comment_120180445

Well, when you put it like that...

worded

Memes

worded

Friend heard that In an interview years ago he said that "gay Jehovah's witnesses were knocking on peoples back doors .... "

Snugbugrug28

Burke's religious convictions are a construct

Andrea B.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180214#Comment_120180214

I would be curious to know too. Nature vs nurture..

My concern now would be how it might all end.

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179427#Comment_120179427

"Yep. 100% agreed. But there are many who are non-religious who don't agree with transgenderism.

In the interests of honesty, I don't agree with transgender athletes, particularly MTF being allowed into female sports. They have an unfair advantage in such circumstances where size and strength are a key feature of the sport. The rest of it I don't give a shyte about."

Oh science denialism isn't restricted to religious extremists. It is just common amongst them. Non-religious science deniers frequently like to pretend that science is actually on their side. Sometimes they even believe it is true.

And at this point the statement "I don't agree with transgenderism" is very much like the statements "I don't agree with evolution" or "I don't agree with gravity".

You should look into the studies done regarding transgender athletes.

squidgainz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179948#Comment_120179948

Wasn't a burke

Henry Ford III

So what happens next?

Enoch is clocking up fine after fine daily, and will continue to not purge his contempt.

He'll be back in front of a judge in a few days again.

I'm assuming he won't pay then either.

Back to jail?

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180793#Comment_120180793

You should look into the studies done regarding transgender athletes.

This isn't the thread for this discussion so I will leave this particular discussion after this but I have looked into studies done regarding transgender athletes. The evidence is very very clear. If a person born a biological male undergoes male puberty and then transitions to become a female, they have a significant sporting advantage bestowed upon them by the fact that they went through male puberty.

Here's a link to some studies. There are lots more but I'm in a hurry to go to work.

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/55/11/577

https://www.aclu.org/wp-content/uploads/legal-documents/049-9_exhibit_i.pdf

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180857#Comment_120180857

Back to jail.

Which is what he wants as it lets him act the martyr.

Response should be to move him around the prison system for fun - up to the open prison in Cavan, back to a normal one etc etc so the travelling circus can't keep up

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180886#Comment_120180886

I'm not sure that your sources support the argument you are making.

"If transgender women are restricted within or excluded from the female category of sport, the important question is whether or not this exclusion (or conditional exclusion) is necessary and proportionate to the goal of ensuring fair, safe and meaningful competition. Regardless of what the future will bring in terms of revised transgender policies, it is clear that diferent sports difer vastly in terms of physiological determinants of success, which may create safety considerations and may alter the importance of retained performance advantages. Thus, we argue against universal guidelines for transgender athletes in sport and instead propose that each individual sports federation evaluate their own conditions for inclusivity, fairness and safety."

And that is from a study that is only narrowly looking at how effective suppression of testosterone is in removing any innate advantage from having gone through male puberty. And they STILL argued against a blanket ban on transgender women competing as women in sport.

But as you say, this is off topic.

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180857#Comment_120180857

My guess is on the 10th the judge will increase the fine, possibly doubling it or more. And set another date for a review. I'd guess that barring a change in his behavior or a request from the school that that second date will be the earliest the judge would send him back to jail.

Of course there are also potential criminal charges pending against him as well which could easily land him in jail separately. If they did presumably the fines would continue to accrue, since despite the fact that he wouldn't be able to attend the school from jail he still would not have purged his contempt.

Well as expected the media attention seems to be dwindling rapidly since Friday. Suppose people got fed up reading an article that was the same as the one yesterday but had a different number at the start.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179528#Comment_120179528

If you call shouting loudly and boorishlyat every opertunity whilst not allowing anyone else to talk, then yeah - they would - but I'm not sure I'd call that a 'debate'.

Ashbourne hoop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179735#Comment_120179735

In fairness, it was an easy mistake to make....

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180909#Comment_120180909

He's pulling the strings it strikes me.

He's happy to languish in jail, and it's at a huge and ongoing cost to the taxpayer.

Is there any other way of dealing with this guy?

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180341#Comment_120180341

What's that, remove the beanie?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181015#Comment_120181015

I don’t see a judge committing him to prison again for contempt or non payment seeing as it was clear as day he was just exploiting his prison stay previously.

They just need to get creative. But I can’t imagine this disrespect of authority of the court will be allowed to continue for much longer. He’s making an absolute joke of the High Court.

waterwelly

Increase the fine and let him keep standing outside if that's what he wants to do.

I'm sure the pupils and staff are used to ignoring this clown by now.

Push the next court date out a few months. He will have to give up at some point.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181074#Comment_120181074

That’s what the Feb 10th date is for. The judge will be reviewing the penalty and as it has not had the desired effect it will be increased.

Of course we’re still just over a week away so that could change but if we’re being real he’s not likely going to drop it.

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180793#Comment_120180793

But the poster didn't say 'I don't agree with transgenderism', they said 'I don't agree with transgender athletes (...being allowed into female sports)' which is a different thing, and also is not necessarily science denialism. And they made no reference to transgenderism.

I am not offering an opinion either way, I have not studied the evidence, I am just suggesting that Archermoo is twisting the (off topic) argument to suit their view.

waterwelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181087#Comment_120181087

No he will keep it going until then at least.

That's why IMO, increase the fine and push the court date out a few months.

Nobody will care and if he wants to waste his life standing outside the school every day that's his choice but he will be getting scant attention for it.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181016#Comment_120181016

The next stage will be bringing his Mammy to have a talk with the principal.

TheWonderLlama

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180445#Comment_120180445

I wonder what the outcry would be from the god botherers if everyone decided to stop calling priests "father" because of their beliefs?

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181095#Comment_120181095

The statement of BattleCorp's that I was responding to with the post of mine that you quoted included "Yep. 100% agreed. But there are many who are non-religious who don't agree with transgenderism." It is right there in the post of mine that you quoted. I never said that BattleCorp felt that way. I agreed with them that science denialism isn't restricted to religious folk.

Separately they expressed concern about trans women competing as women in sport. I suggested that they look at the studies that have been done on the matter.

I haven't twisted anything.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181074#Comment_120181074

I think he's shown that he won't "give up eventually" with the current penalties - He's a zealot and the judiciary have to find a way that actually makes it hard for him.

Sitting in jail isn't necessarily a hardship for him - It's not like he's missing out on a banging fortnight in Ayia Napa or anything.

The big thing will be to force him to submit his financial details which he has refused to do so far.

If they can actually get line of sight to the money he says he's been "saving for a deposit" or perhaps even money in any kind of shared account with the family , then it starts to make things actually difficult for him , which is the point of these kinds of sanctions.

February 10th will bring a big increase in the costs allocated against him.

He'll have ~10k from the current daily fines , plus the Judge is likely to add on the entire legal costs for both sides to date which won't be a small number given the number of court appearances and the time involved. I would not be surprised if the legal costs were 30/40k to date.

On top of that, I suspect that the judge will "go big" on the daily fine so I would not be at all surprised if he increased it dramatically.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181015#Comment_120181015

Unless you can think of something coercive (imprisonment and fines are meant to be coercive) that he won't actually like as a martyrdom thing, no.

Splish Splash

Has Enoch lodged an appeal against his dismissal? He had ten working days to do that iirc.

Does anyone know if he was dismissed on the basis of his behaviour prior to his suspension only, or if his refusal to acknowledge the suspension was part of the reason for his dismissal? Has that information been made public?

MangleBadger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120180958#Comment_120180958

That quote does not dispute the point that Battlecorp is mentioning which is that transgender athletes can have an advantage in certain sports due to going through puberty as a male. Your quote leaves it up to individual sports to decide. Which is a perfectly normal position to take.