Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

BattleCorp · 08-02-2023 2:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214812#Comment_120214812

Sorry to disappoint. I haven't even said anything to warrant a warning in this thread let alone be threadbanned. You must have me mixed up with someone else.

Yep, he'll end up back in the slammer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214835#Comment_120214835

I suspect you are 100% correct.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214854#Comment_120214854

I'm not talking nonsense. He has a few options.

Purge his contempt and pay the fines. Unlikely to happen in the short to mid term.
Purge his contempt and not pay the fines. If he does this, he'll probably get a short jail sentence in lieu of the fines.
Not purge his contempt and not pay the fines. If he does this, his fines will build and the Judge will eventually have to jail him.

So in one sense, the fines are optional. Either pay them or don't. But there are consequences for not paying them, i.e. jail.

I suspect he'll pick jail.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214874#Comment_120214874

By the looks of this, plenty of scofflaws are getting away with it.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30928402.html#:~:text=The%20vast%20bulk%20of%20offenders,futile%E2%80%9D%2C%20court%20documents%20reveal.

Burke is screwed. He'll have to put his house buying plans on hold. He's pretty much unemployable as a teacher now and I think he'll be living with Mammy and Daddy for the forseeable future. So I guess you are correct, from that point of view, it does make a difference to Burke.

One way the fines might be collected, and this is a long shot, is if Burke is successful in getting the courts or WRC to rule that his sacking was unfair and was awarded compensation. There could be a lien put on any potential compensation.

tayto lover · 08-02-2023 2:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214713#Comment_120214713

Many people who owe debts choose to do the time instead. There is usually a fine or a certain amount of time in jail or both. If Burke rocked into court and said he's not paying the fine then he would be sent to prison and be out in days if not even sooner, everything taken into account.

Quin_Dub · 08-02-2023 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215385#Comment_120215385

As I said earlier , he's not going to "decide" to pay on his own.

But the Courts can and will simply hang that debt around his neck for the rest of his life - Any income streams he might have in the future will be consumed by the state - They'll leave him with just about enough to live and take the rest as payment.

It might take the rest of his life but they'll take the money off him.

waterwelly · 08-02-2023 2:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215443#Comment_120215443

Not much the court can do if somebody has no money, or puts the money beyond reach.

Look at Sean Quinn.

08-02-2023 2:45pm

Not going to bother arguing about whether or not burke will pay his fines. One way or the other it will be paid.

theres only so long he can carry on like this and he seen to get away with it.

ohnonotgmail · 08-02-2023 2:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215448#Comment_120215448

I'm not talking nonsense.

That was in reference to Burke realising the error of his ways. As for the fines for contempt the judge can convert them into prison time BUT the legal costs of the other will still have to be paid.

BattleCorp · 08-02-2023 2:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215483#Comment_120215483

Fair enough. I agree Burke won't see the error of his ways. He's on a crusade for God.

It's not as simple as saying the legal costs will still have to be paid. The company I used to work successfully defended some personal injury cases and were awarded costs but never saw a penny of them because the plaintiff pretty much had no means........kind of like Burke now unless he has a pile of money saved up. If he had a pile of money saved up, you can be sure that's been put out of harms way by now.

08-02-2023 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215420#Comment_120215420

I don't know if he should be just left there, but I don't know what options are open to the Judge.

I don't care if Enoch goes blue with the cold, its his choice to stand there, but it must cause tension and stress for the staff and students of WHS to have to put up with his ongoing presence. Once the mid-term next week is over they will be full on ramping up in preparation for the Junior and Leaving Cert exams.

The students have to be the priority, and if that means jailing Burke again to keep him out of the way, then maybe he should be locked up again.

waterwelly · 08-02-2023 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215470#Comment_120215470

No the state won't consume his income streams.

Look at Sean Quinn jr. They left him with nearly €10k a month.

Daddy Quinn still lives in a multi million euro mansion.

The orders were varied from time to time to allow Mr Quinn jnr €6,700 living expenses a month, while his wife was in receipt of €2,895 a month.

Many of the bust property developers have resurrected themselves.

waterwelly · 08-02-2023 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215522#Comment_120215522

It's not that big a deal for the kids with him standing there.

I'm sure there are schools with drug house s / halting sites etc. etc. across the road and people get on with it.

Quin_Dub · 08-02-2023 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215527#Comment_120215527

Those were the commercial courts dealing with commercial debts.

Failure to pay court fines are a different beast altogether.

waterwelly · 08-02-2023 2:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215540#Comment_120215540

Yes I understand that. But they don't take the dole off a criminal either leaving a family with nothing.

kazamo · 08-02-2023 3:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215384#Comment_120215384

I think he should pay costs too, but the 50k was awarded on the 19th September and I’m sure they have had costs since then.

What I find odd is that schools have struggled to pay bills for years and most of them have involuntary “voluntary contributions” in place, but it didn’t take long for them to clock up a 50k legal bill in a matter of a few weeks……..the final bill could be twice that.

This case was certainly been good for the legal profession, big fees racked up quickly and either paid by Burke or school/dept of education/parents.

Some of the Burke family behaviour might have been curbed if it had met an immovable object earlier. I fear it might be too late for therapy for a couple of them.

For the record…..Burke is a clown and I am totally against his stance. He should be still in prison but the judge decided to be lenient…..to a lunatic.

And here we are today and he is still free to roam…….the laws are only applied to law abiding people 😔

ohnonotgmail · 08-02-2023 3:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215510#Comment_120215510

if he transfers money to avoid paying court awards the court can reverse the transfer. He did have a pile of money saved for a house deposit. he can kiss goodbye to that.

BattleCorp · 08-02-2023 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215589#Comment_120215589

Loads of ways to hide the money if he was so inclined. Take it out in cash and bury it in a hole in the ground would be one way. Hard for the Courts/State to get their hands on it then.

How much did he have saved?

waterwelly · 08-02-2023 3:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215589#Comment_120215589

The courts can't just reverse a transfer.

He could put the money in His mother's name.

Or into a bank account they nothing about.

Or cash under the mattress.

People should read the article posted earlier today, chasing these fines is a tough ask.

BattleCorp · 08-02-2023 3:09pm

I'm curious.

If Burke is such a God Squad member, would he tell lies about where he has his money kept? Assuming he still has a few bob salted away?

hoodie6029 · 08-02-2023 3:09pm

The reality is, as other posters have said, he’ll have his wages garnished forever essentially and have a very hard time getting credit.

We’d all prefer the narrative of him saying sorry and handing over a fat cheque (are cheques still around?) or hearing his house was raised by the county sheriff for costs. That’s never gonna happen.

This drama will play out very slowly and boringly from here out.

Pretty soon the student in Wilson’s will be gone, the original principal is already gone. What will be the point of standing there?

The WRC can make some shocking decisions so I suppose we just have to hold on for that.

This really is a story that is a ‘I don’t want to look at, can’t stop looking at’ situation.

ohnonotgmail · 08-02-2023 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215613#Comment_120215613

if he transfers the money to avoid paying a court order the court can reverse the transfer.

ohnonotgmail · 08-02-2023 3:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215616#Comment_120215616

perhaps he could borrow the idea of mental reservation from the catholic church.

BattleCorp · 08-02-2023 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215618#Comment_120215618

Who'd give him a job now? Certainly not a school here in Ireland. And if he has no job, he has no wages to garnish.

He'd be the ideal teacher for some of the stranger evangelical type schools in the US but would he be let into the US now?

I wouldn't be surprised if Burke won his case against the school as he has an argument that the report used for his disciplinary procedure was biased and therefore flawed and the school may have discussed the report at a meeting Burke should have been invited to. You have to remember that the Judge was about to give Burke his injunction if Burke agreed to stay away from the school but he said nope, so the Judge wouldn't give him his injunction against the disciplinary procedure. And for the record, I think Burke is a twat in case you think I'm a Burke supporter.

08-02-2023 3:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215539#Comment_120215539

The Student Council did write to Enoch expressing their concerns, but as we know, in an act of cowardice he refused to accept the letter.

While I partially agree - I'm sure for some of the kids its not a big deal at all, but I'm also sure that it is upsetting for some of the LGBTQ students. They said as much in the letter ....

In the letter, obtained by the Sunday Independent, the student council wrote to Mr Burke to say: “To many LGBTQI+ students your presence here is a daily reminder of the prejudices they feel from you.”

They said they were “fearful that something may be said to them by you if there was a moment where [teacher] or [teacher] were not supervising you.

“Students are scared that you may say something harmful to them for further publicity. Students feel that they can’t be themselves around you and have to change the way they act. We should not have to do this.”

Either way, they should not be subjected to his presence at their school gate. The judge could order him to stay a certain distance away, but we all know he'd simply ignore any such order.

I honestly can't even begin to predict what action the Judge will take next, but whatever it is, I think he might give Enoch unti the end of the mid-term break to reflect, but after that? Who knows.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 08-02-2023 3:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215370#Comment_120215370

Yes, I do - Beechwoodpark, I think - my apologies!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215385#Comment_120215385

Oh, I think you'll find that they can. This isn't the first time they've ad to deal with people refusing to pay fines.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120215402#Comment_120215402

Ah, but if he doesn't purge his contempt, they can continue to fine him and he effectively pays for his own incarceration - win-win!

kazamo · 08-02-2023 3:18pm

Looked this up out of curiosity.

What happens if I don’t pay my fine?

If your fine remains unpaid or if you do not pay an instalment by the due date, you will receive a fines enforcement notice. It will tell you the date and time you must attend for another hearing. At that hearing you will be given an opportunity to pay the outstanding fine in full or the judge may opt for one of the following (in order):

attachment of earnings
recovery order – only for fines over €500 or corporate fines
community service
imprisonment.

He has made himself unemployable, and whatever assets he has, won’t last long with these bills. Won’t be long before the Courts look at options 3 and 4.

Even if he agreed to an instalment plan…..it can only last 1 year and 42 days.