Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312144#Comment_120312144

He will never get good job back, even if he "won" some kind of victory in the courts.

At best he might get a payout of some kind, but he won't see a penny of it.

Furze99

Another side to this saga, always two sides:- https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/0304/1360192-enoch-burke/

"In his response to the school, Mr Burke says he has continued to "report for work" since his release from prison in December 2022.

Mr Burke says that he stands outside the school building and that he's greeted almost every day by students either "waving, putting up their hand or making a positive comment". He says first year students consistently wave to him and that students have held up handwritten messages of support from inside an adjacent classroom window asking what they can do to support him and if he needs anything to eat.

Mr Burke says that when he was standing in the school corridor one day, a student gave him a gift bag of scones she had baked herself. He says on another occasion a student asked him for private tuition.

Mr Burke also claims he has had support from parents, one of whom told him he was a hero in their children's eyes as well as "an inspiration needed for young students during these unprecedented times".

Mr Burke also alleges he has received support from staff in the school and that he has not caused any disruption."

Billy Mays

Well if MrBurke said it it must be true👍🏻

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312395#Comment_120312395

That could all be true and maybe he has a lot of support. Equally though, by the way he has phrased it in the affidavit it could just be one fellow teacher, two students and two parents who have shown support and his sworn affidavit would still be completely true. So it's not necessarily some massive game-changer.

Leg End Reject

I can easily imagine some students enjoying the spectacle and encouraging him for their own amusement without actually caring about his principles.

It's also credible that some former colleagues and parents agree with his stance, but I find it hard to believe that a teacher would risk supporting him now. I wonder has he named his supporters?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312432#Comment_120312432

Well he's of an evangelist persuasion, so I think it's reasonable to believe that he's essentially honest in nature. Of course, he could be gilding the lily a bit but I'm not there and as I doubt are many others who comment here. So hard to tell, must be some truth in it though.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312470#Comment_120312470

He probably does have support from some students, teachers and parents. It doesnt particularly make a big difference though.

It’s telling it’s 1st years waving to him. Everything is exciting to a first year. If there was a dog poohing on the other side of the entrance that would have got their attention.

Penn

I'd say there's almost definitely some people at or near the school who support him. It is a very religious school to begin with rather than a typical local public school.

However, the number of them that have shown that support publicly so far totals at somewhere between 1 and -1. And even if they support him, there's no f*cking hope one of the parents said that Burke is their kid's inspiration and a hero.

It doesn't matter a jot if he has a bit of support, heck even the likes of the national nutter Gemma O'Doherty has some supporters.

What matters is his flagrant disregard of court orders.

He could turn up to the court with 500 people in tow and it would have zero bearing on the decisions of the court.

Yeah_Right

Burke's claims of support remind me of all the times Trump made statements that started with "A man came up to me with tears in his eyes and said, Sir (insert a load of BS about how great Trump is)".

Mad_maxx

Burke is the kind of guy who’s stuborness - zealotry - iron will would have been well harnessed in the army , I get he’d have been endlessly guilty of subordination but with the right drill seargeant, would have made a fiercely brave and dependable soldier

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312775#Comment_120312775

' I met a man with two pints last night .....'

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312220#Comment_120312220

Even if he won a payout, it would probably be made go towards settling the daily fines owed, somehow.

Regarding what you say here about Enoch not being reinstated - I do think the guy genuinely loved being a teacher and being in front of a classroom. His dedicated youtube channel and his separate teaching notes website - all given for free - show his investment in teaching.

So I believe in the long run, even if he never pays a cent of the fines, the loss of his job and the unlikelihood of any school every employing him again, will feel like a very significant punishment for Enoch that he will have to live with, longer than any jail sentence.

Not that I've any sympathy for him. He brought it all on himself.

HalloweenJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312470#Comment_120312470

He's misrepressented the case in public by claiming that he's been punished for being against transgenderism when he is being punished for his behaviour in the workplace and his refusal to follow procedures.

That does not make him an 'essentially honest' person and would give me plenty of reason not to believe him unquestioningly.

Given how much respect he and his family have shown for court orders and the functionings of the courts, it woudln't surprise me if he lied in a sworn document if he thought it'd help his case.

Believing what people say when their actions suggest otherwise just because they are religious is the kind of reasoning that let religions wreak so much havoc around the world.

thesandeman

It's probably one digit of their hands that the students are putting up to him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312559#Comment_120312559

Well, it definitely wasn't the students who walked out of the church when he started his anti-transgender rant at the anniversary celebrations last June.

And it definitely wasn't the ones who wrote the letter to him via the Student Council, telling him how his behaviour reminded them of the prejudices they had to face every day, or those who asked him to stop disrupting their school with his actions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312447#Comment_120312447

Burke is fond of self-aggrandisement.

He described himself as having “lavished the school with a wealth of talent and honour and goodwill for four years.”

to which Justice O'Moore replied "that wealth of talent your own, is it, Mr Burke? I just want to understand what you're saying."

GarfieldandPookyBear

I don’t know what the terms of the ruling were in regards to an appeal but if the judge put a stay on it, the judgement stands for that period of time so he would still be liable for the fines if he wins his appeal. I would guess that he would have had a lot more support if he approached it differently but he can’t just ignore court orders that don’t suit him but order the courts to make an order against someone else.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312775#Comment_120312775

As you mention Trump for the purposes of comparison, a whole lot of people assumed in both 2016 and 2020 that Trump didn’t have much support, turned out that when polling was done people didn’t want to admit that they supported a nutter’s point of view, we all know now he had enough to make him President once, and almost a second time, and he can’t be written off at the next election. It is conceivable that there are those, even in the school who are at least sympathetic to his stance but don’t want to say it publicly.

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313716#Comment_120313716

I would guess that the ones at the school that support him are much like the ones I've seen here supporting him. They support his anti-trans agenda and want to pretend that that is why he was fired. When at the base of it he was fired for being a bully.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120313976#Comment_120313976

You are speculating. Though I haven’t read vast swathes of this thread, I haven’t seen any support for him in the posts I have read.

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314012#Comment_120314012

I've read quite a lot of this thread and all of the people that I've seen defending Burke has talked about how they support his anti-trans position. The closest I've seen to people defending his behavior have been the ones that question whether or not his actions towards the principal even happened, or questioning whether they warranted his dismissal. But I haven't seen anyone saying that they thought yelling at the principal in the middle of a church service, and then again at the dinner afterwards was a good thing for him to do.

And yes, I am speculating about the positions of the theoretical Burke supporters at the school. Ones that we only have his unsubstantiated word as proof that they even exist. And being the scofflaw that he is I'm not going to just assume that anything he says is actually true.

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314012#Comment_120314012

There was a good bit of support for him at the start but most of them got threadbanned because they would not engage with the fact that he was suspended/fired for his behaviour rather than his beliefs. Even people who did not support him tended to accept that he was entitled to his beliefs, just not to act in an unprofessional and abusive way in the school.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312470#Comment_120312470

That is a very naive assumption

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314298#Comment_120314298

No kidding. My experience with evangelists means that if one were to tell me that grass was green I'd check it for myself to make sure nothing had changed. And make sure they hadn't lifted my wallet. Which isn't to say that I haven't ever met honest and truthful evangelists. I've just met a lot more that aren't either.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314446#Comment_120314446

That is interesting. Is it that you think they are dishonest in their beliefs, or that many are inherently dishonest? Can you give us a flavour of your experiences?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314012#Comment_120314012

That's due to the majority of the anti-trans folks being banned

They had difficulty separating the issues at hand with their bigotry.

Much like Enoch as it happens

hamburgham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312867#Comment_120312867

If he started a go fund me to pay the fine, I think people would be surprised at how well he would do, and not just from within Ireland. It has got a lot of coverage in the UK and I think the tide is really turning on this gender business there. More and more people not afraid to call it out unlike here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314571#Comment_120314571

"This gender business"?

Call what out, exactly. Please be specific.