Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082267#Comment_120082267

Take your time AJr. You keep missing the point. One might think you are doing it intentionally.

Never did I say I cared for beauty pageants. I care about the fairness of competition. Letting a male into a female competition in almost every scenario is unfair.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082339#Comment_120082339

You’re continuing to prove my point more and more clearly with every post. I couldn’t do better myself.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082360#Comment_120082360

All those tyre particles must be getting into your brain. As per usual, you quickly run out of steam and rehash the same incoherent nonsense you always do.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082313#Comment_120082313

sorry lad just a serious headache rn to read all that, I’m replying so I can come back later when I’m not dying haha.

for now, though, I’ll take my comment about you being a bigot back, as it’s clearly not the right word. i apologise.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082667#Comment_120082667

I'm not sure why you're confused. Are you?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082667#Comment_120082667

uh.. try turning up to school, being suspended, and occupying classrooms and corridors despite that.

I’ve said it on this thread already, but it bares repeating, do you seriously think it’s appropriate behaviour, while suspended from duty, to just show up?

the schools board of management sought high court orders to bar him from doing so yet he carried on doing it.

Let me make it abundantly clear as it’s become a trend by now that Enoch Burke was in jail, for defying court orders to stay away from a workplace he was suspended from, not because he doesn’t like transgender people.

so to summarise:

He was suspended due to his behaviour in school and outside school at events, he felt like he was above all of that and showed up regardless. The school couldn’t reason with him they got a court order, he ignored it, he was jailed.

The fact is we don’t know anything more than what we read in the papers, we’re not getting the full story. You and I don’t have a clue what he’s said or done outside of what’s been reported. He harassed the schools principal in public because of it.

if I followed my boss around a church crying at him over something he put on the menu and got suspended or sacked, would I be in my right to keep turning up to work anyway? I’ve been sacked from a kitchen before because we didn’t see eye to eye, maybe I should have just kept turning up anyway. Silly me.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082667#Comment_120082667

Asked and answered for you already so I can only conclude that you are trolling, rather badly. reported

Maybe some people need to read the story again, because it’s causing an awful of lot of ridiculous confusion as to why he’s not in prison at the moment.

It’s been said it was some sort of Christmas gift from the judge, was it fcuk. They had enough of it because they realised he was doing it for his own benefit.

Read: https://www.irishlegal.com/articles/high-court-judge-orders-enoch-burke-to-be-released-from-prison-as-he-was-exploiting-his-imprisonment-for-his-own-ends

if you’re too lazy, I’ll insert some of what the judge said.

Finally, the court considered Mr Burke’s motivation for his imprisonment. The court outlined that Mr Burke was incorrect in his assertion that he was imprisoned for standing up for his religious beliefs. Instead, he brought about his jailing by continuing to attend the school when ordered not to do so.

However, the court noted that Mr Burke had become a household name due to his imprisonment. It was also outlined that Mr Burke had taken key decisions in the course of the litigation which were “quite illogical”. First, nothing in the court orders required Mr Burke to compromise his religious beliefs and yet this was consistently the position adopted by him in the proceedings.

He was released because it was a waste of time to keep him there & they will seek to make sure he doesn’t in future by other means.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120080311#Comment_120080311

"Plenty of non religious work in Catholic schools and do the whole mass, prayer stuff etc, because it is school policy."

Well clearly if they are non religious and yet do the whole mass, prayer stuff....... they are hypocrites. And who wants a hypocrite teaching your child?

You or I might not agree with Burke's convictions but at least he's not a hypocrite. Once you know where you are with a person, things are a lot simpler. Hypocrites on the other hand don't know what they believe in and/or are not prepared to stand for their beliefs and neither can you or I know what to make of them.

As has been stated above, a large part of Burke's problem here is first that he's named Enoch and secondly that he's from an evangelical wing of Christianity. That singles him out for character assassination.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082809#Comment_120082809

He is a hypocrite like every other bible thumper is.

Love they neighbour and all that shite gets quickly forgotten when it suits them.

Theyre bigots. End of.

Beasty

...Ghost... threadbanned

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082787#Comment_120082787

Plus, being in prison halts the disciplinary hearing that has to happen next. The original one was meant to happen in September but was postponed when Enoch went to prison. I don't think it's any coincidence that the school sent a letter to him in December, advising him that the rescheduled hearing was to take place this month.

Random sample

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082035#Comment_120082035

Again, I would be surprised if the BOM sanctioned him for that at all. I presume he was one of the vocal ones in NUIG, so they hardly expected him not to get involved in activism while in his teaching role.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082819#Comment_120082819

Please explain why 'bible thumpers' are hypocrites. And what sort of hypocritical behaviour that Burke has engaged in as regards his beliefs?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082914#Comment_120082914

I suppose the whole respecting other human beings thing doesn't matter if it doesn't suit them , love one another blah blah. They'll pick and choose parts of scripture they want to to suit an agenda, and deliberately ignore the bits that you know should give them a bit more cop on

They're zealots and bigots. Nothing more than that. To be honest the burke parents should be investigated such is the doctrination they've inflicted on their children

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082914#Comment_120082914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082809#Comment_120082809

Campaigning for the role of Equality Officer in NUIG while actively campaigning against the right to marry for same sex couples, would be one example of Burke's hypocrisy.

Refusing to comply with High Court Orders made on him on one hand, while at the same time, petitioning the High Court grant orders in his favour, is another.

"Plenty of non religious work in Catholic schools and do the whole mass, prayer stuff etc, because it is school policy."

Well clearly if they are non religious and yet do the whole mass, prayer stuff....... they are hypocrites. And who wants a hypocrite teaching your child?

Yes, because there are so, so, many non-religious schools in this country where non-religious teachers can find employment. 

🙄



Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120083175#Comment_120083175

Campaigning for the role of Equality Officer in NUIG while actively campaigning against the right to marry for same sex couples, would be one example of Burke's hypocrisy.

Thats a interesting concept.

Was he running on some sort of a platform that there was no such thing as equality or there can never be equality, or that there should be limits on equality?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120082905#Comment_120082905

Activist?

Oh good lord.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120083112#Comment_120083112

Ah come on now, that's kinda weak. And that's a problem, once you strip away the hyperbole about this case, you're left with an odd ball of a chap who wants to live in line with his religious beliefs. You could ask why the school couldn't accommodate this.

I wouldn't call Burke a hypocrite, maybe religious zealot or fanatic would be more appropriate. I got good advice years ago, to be wary of zealots and fanatics. But to be honest if that's what Burke is, there's several people on this thread who are likewise zealots and fanatics!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120083242#Comment_120083242

There is a whole thread on it, and the other goings on of the Burke family on the NUIG forum. Have a look for yourself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2057167264/burke-family-vs-nui-galway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120083304#Comment_120083304

But the burkes are well liked and respected.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120083264#Comment_120083264

He can live in line with whatever he likes, but if he can’t show basic respect and dignity to a student, then he can’t do the job of a teacher. If he can’t show basic respect and dignity to his principal, then he can’t work in a school.

Its not about his beliefs, it’s about his behaviour. Shall I say it again for the students down the back who weren’t listening?

Its not about his beliefs, it’s about his behaviour.

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120078824#Comment_120078824

They did it because of their religion, so yes.

Ashbourne hoop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071803#Comment_120071803

This. I still can't understand why there wasn't a simple Google done on the guy. It would have shown what he and his family were about. Then its a "Unfortunately at this time you were unsuccessful in your application. We wish you all the best in your future endeavours." letter and he's not the school's problem.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084051#Comment_120084051

And this is getting tiresome too.... for the students with deaf ears, his behaviour and his beliefs are linked. One is a result of the other.

You may not like his behaviour and his beliefs but can he/ should have been accommodated in terms of these religious convictions?????????

And if not, why not - given the general thrust of religious doctrine in many Irish schools which doesn't apparently bother most people.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084606#Comment_120084606

He has been in the job for a few years now.

When did the Burke family first start making headlines?

My first hearing of them was in summer 2020 when they were bringing a high court case because one of them was denied a leaving cert calculated grade because he was home schooled.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084646#Comment_120084646

Three things:

First, I think Burke would deny that his attitudes and behaviours here are based on a religious belief. I think he'd say that his position on this - that gender is determined by physical characteristics and is immutable - is based on an understanding of what it is to be a human being. He'd appeal to anthropology, not religion.

I must admit that I haven't followed the legal side of this sorry affair in great detail. Has Burke, in court, advanced any arguments based on a claim to a right to religious freedom?

Secondly, leaving that aside, assume that Burke's belief that gender is determined by physical characteristics and is immutable is a religious belief. There's only an indirect connection between that belief and the behaviour that Burke is in trouble for, which is attending at his workplace while under suspension. I'm not aware of any flavour of Christianity which holds it to be a duty to attend at one's workplace while under suspension. Burke may feel that his suspension is unjust and is a violation of his religious freedom and that he must in conscience challenge it, but he has other avenues open to him for challenging it (e.g. participating in Labour Court proceedings) that are perfectly compatible with his religious beliefs. His choice to use this particular avenue is not dictated by his religion; it's a personal preference.

Thirdly, leaving that aside, there's no general principle in Irish law that behaviour which is otherwise unacceptable and can legally be restrained is immune from restraint if it is justified by an appeal to a religious belief; that's not what religious freedom means. I might point to a scripture in my religion stating that it is not only the right but also the duty of a husband to physically discipline his wife if she burns the toast; that will not be of any help to me in the ensuing civil and criminal proceedings for beating my wife. Religious freedom is not a blank cheque to do whatever you want without restraint.

So, should Burke have been accommodated in treating the student concerned as he wished, and in treating the school management and school community as in fact he did, given his appeal to religious belief? Absolutely not. The primary consideration here is the welfare of the student concerned, and it's impossible to argue that Burke's carry-on was conducive to and supportive of their welfare. Burke needs to find a way of expressing his religious beliefs that isn't actively and gratuitously harmful to others.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084668#Comment_120084668

Four of them got banned for life from college societies at NUI Galway in 2014 for irregularities in them running the Christian Union Society. Of course, they escalated that for publicity with a number of stunts, legal cases, procedural obstruction and constant claims of victimisation that dragged on until 2021- a familiar MO at this stage. I think that's when they first came to media/public attention. Predictably, they claimed religious discrimination, and predictably they lost, because having religious belief doesn't absolve you of the various responsibilities of functioning within society.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/four-siblings-lose-challenge-over-ban-from-membership-of-nuig-societies-1.4735759

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120084646#Comment_120084646

it is very possible to have his beliefs and not behave in the way he did. his behaviour is not the result of his beliefs. and nobody should like his behaviour. it was completely out of order and should be sacked by the school.

Markus Antonius

This family were in NUIG when I was a student. They are trolls of the highest order - always trying to stir up controversy.

I remember they used funds from one of the religious societies to print some preachy leaflets. They got suspended from the society, naturally enough. They then claimed that they were being denied the ability to join societies because of their faith and protested daily on the main campus.

What annoyed me the most is was their big Mayo heads disrupting my otherwise pleasant Galway experience.