Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339297#Comment_120339297

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339309#Comment_120339309

I know of one case of a girl attending a single sex Loreto convent school who transitioned to male at about 15 or 16. The school handled it beautifully, accommodating the student's needs with no fuss or drama, and no question of changing school.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339833#Comment_120339833

Judge away, as I said, your opinion like everyone else’s, is subjective. But don’t think that your opinion is the only right one, you are in Burke territory if you do.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339139#Comment_120339139

I’m stunned because his demeanour in his professional capacity which I had no exposure to before, is like night and day compared to his demeanour in a personal capacity. His teaching style is exactly as @looksee described - calm, relaxed, informative and helpful, quite distinct from his antics in public which indicate otherwise.

That they cannot function in their chosen routes of employment has nothing to do with becoming the laughing stock of anyone, smug keyboard warriors or anyone whom you determine as sleepwalking their way through life accepting every rule without question. That clearly came afterwards, when they couldn’t function in their chosen routes of employment. Their behaviour is entirely their own responsibility, and that’s why each of them as adults are held personally accountable for their actions and their attitudes towards others.

It’s perfectly possible to challenge a rule or refuse to accept it in an entirely rational manner by going through the route of established processes to deal with any grievances one may have, whether it be in employment or in law. Everyone, regardless of who they are, is held to the same standard. The Burkes are clearly operating under the impression that the same standards which apply to everyone, do not apply and cannot be applied to them. The Judge made it clear to Enoch that he cannot rely on the protection afforded in law when he chooses to operate outside of it (or words to that effect), and that same principle applies to anyone, regardless of who they are or whether they are or aren’t capable of functioning in their chosen route of employment, or functioning in wider society. Nobody is permitted to operate as though they own the place and have the right to make up their own rules as they go along and choose what rules they will and will not follow or what laws do and do not apply to them.

Their behaviour speaks nothing of any strength, it speaks entirely of a weak moral character that they kick off like a spoilt child at the slightest inconvenience in their path, never mind the obstacles they attempt to place in others way to make their own path easier for themselves. Their attitudes, actions and behaviour are nothing more than those of a weak-minded coward. It’s for this reason I don’t snigger and laugh at them, I pity them, because they should be taken pity upon. I find it difficult to forgive them, because they know exactly what they’re doing.

Contrary to your belief, I do not believe that Ma Burke is entirely responsible for her offspring’s attitudes and behaviour towards others. Each of them are big enough and bold enough now that they can no longer be regarded as possessing the mind of a child, which is why each of them are responsible and can be held accountable for their own attitudes and actions.

Any associations between their attitudes and behaviours, and either their religious beliefs, their family relationships, or their having been homeschooled are nothing more than backwards rationalisation by way of seeking an alternative explanation for their behaviour that amounts to nothing more than being fuelled by sheer arrogance and entitlement. Explanations like that fall apart when confronted with overwhelming evidence to the contrary - there are many more people in Irish society alone without even going outside of this country who have been raised with their beliefs, who have been homeschooled, who have excelled academically, and the only difference between them is that those people are not operating as though they are beyond the reach of the same standards and constraints which apply to everyone in a Western democratic society.

You may well wish there were more people like the Burkes in society, and there are, and were it not for the same standards applying to them as applies to everyone in society, those people too would imagine they have free rein to go through life operating on their own terms and to hell with everyone else. It’s because standards exist to protect other people from them, and even to protect them from themselves, that keeps those people in check rather than having them let their ego get out of control and there being no telling what they might do or who they might cause harm to. This is a good thing, and if nothing else can come of this whole sorry episode, if you learn that much from it, then it hasn’t entirely been in vain.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339850#Comment_120339850

Look, it goes without saying that people have different opinions. That's why there's a debate.

I'm merely making my case, presenting a reasonable argument (with examples), and being consistent.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339840#Comment_120339840

But you see I think that their "exceptionalism" which is something they certainly believe themselves would be just as much a disaster if campaigning for something good. I don't want someone beside me on a campaign acting like these entitled clowns.

Burke did give up. He gave up right away.

Not giving up would have been to fight within the school and then court rules which he understood well.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339878#Comment_120339878

The fact is that Burke (and the rest of the family) are perfectly capable of being reasonable, civil and following legal procedure when they want to.

As I've pointed out before, the only two legal cases they have won so far (the one against against NUIG for Issac's delay in getting his PhD interview, and the one against the Dept. of Education about Elijah's predicted grades in the LC), they hired legal representation and didn't engage in any kind of courtroom drama at all. They knew they had a legal leg to stand on in both cases, and had the good sense to behave perfectly normally and let professionals represent them.

All the other cases - the ones where they've had no legal leg to stand on (and they are fully aware of that) - they've engaged in this OTT performance instead. It's clear it's a deliberate, put on, strategy designed to be disruptive and get attention, not to win cases.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339840#Comment_120339840

something exceptional about them, but not in a good way.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339499#Comment_120339499

This is concerning. Just because you & Enoch are of a similar age, that doesn't mean that he needs to be like you, think like you or act like you. Thankfully we still have individuals in society who are capable of thinking out their own positions regardless what these may be. His beliefs are his, he doesn't have to conform to yours.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339927#Comment_120339927

Yip.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339960#Comment_120339960

He does not think out his own positions

His beliefs are his mother's.

He is a sheep.

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339926#Comment_120339926

Exactly this. My assumption at this point is that they knew very well that they didn't actually have a legal leg to stand on with his objection. So he, or more likely the family, decided to go down the shouty drama queen route. Playing at being the victim to try and get attention and sympathy since they knew they'd never win on the actual facts.

HalloweenJack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339960#Comment_120339960

You're right; he doesn't have to have the same opinions as me. I just don't see anything in his public appearances to suggest that he is making the most of his intelligence.

The video from the other day of his mother going on and the rest of them standing behind her and nodding along was quite illuminating. Why does an intelligent middle-aged man need his mammy to argue his case for him? Martina Burke is not involved in this case whatsoever; why isn't he publicly addressing the matter?

When he has done so, such as that video in January, he has misrepresented the facts of the case and didn't engage when asked questions by reporters. As others have mentioned, he knows exactly what he is doing. He is wilfully being deceitful and dishonest. Those are characteristics I have no time for and I think there are plenty on this thread and across the country who agree with me on that point.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339139#Comment_120339139

The fact that both Ammi and now Enoch have been sacked by their employers, due to their conduct, shows that they cannot function in their chosen routes of employment.

It is highly unlikely either will ever be employed as a solicitor, or teacher, respectively, in this country again.

I'd also say many employers will think twice before employing any of the other siblings.

archermoo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339910#Comment_120339910

"Burke did give up. He gave up right away."

Precisely. Going all shouty is an admission that he knows that he doesn't have a leg to stand on legally. If he thought his position was legally defensible he wouldn't have gone down the route that he did. Having done so is pretty clear evidence that he didn't think the law was on his side.

GarfieldandPookyBear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340066#Comment_120340066

Exactly! Even worse that he is using his religion as an excuse! For supposed Christians, they are far from it.

@Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339173#Comment_120339173

What? 🤔

I don't know why you went off on this tangent, but sometimes a post is simply a reply to a question and nothing more.

@Princess Consuela Bananahammock asked a question why a boy (who identifies as a girl) enrolling in a specific school, Colaiste Ide in Dingle, would be a problem. I simply replied with the information that the school in question is currently a single sex boarding school for girls.

I also mentioned that WHS was at one time, a single sex boarding school for boys - which it was.

There was no further "context" in my reply, in relation to Enoch Burke's specific situation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339319#Comment_120339319

The only sibling whom I have never seen mentioned anywhere as involved in any of the Burke shenanigans, (so far) is Keren.

On that basis, I harbor some hope that Keren may be the one who breaks away some day.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340314#Comment_120340314

Sorry I probably got the post or poster confused with another one.

What you said was correct.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340399#Comment_120340399

I’d love to know how those who aren’t active and in the news spewing sho1te feel about all of this nonsense. Are they reading boards? * waves *

Hopefully they will see sense- fine if they want to have strong views on certain moral issues but how the rest of the family are behaving is essentially ruining your future chances in life for employment- I hope there’s a big pot of Burke gold up there in Mayo because they’re going to need it to survive

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339684#Comment_120339684

Longford! Nuff said.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339539#Comment_120339539

How do you know?

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340079#Comment_120340079

Ffs! Can't marry my horse! Now you tell me, and I was all set to propose next week during Cheltenham!

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340927#Comment_120340927

The pupil did not want to identify as the opposite sex, just neither sex.

Poster just being pedantic, they still believe it's a boy's only school, ffs

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340977#Comment_120340977

I fear the horse would have said neigh...

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339330#Comment_120339330

Isn't that the whole point of religion and the freedom to practice whatever religion you fancy. They are free to believe whatever they want and don't have to explain or get approval for their beliefs from anyone. Even if those beliefs are cracked.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341131#Comment_120341131

Religious freedom doesn't mean that you can ignore workplace policies, disregard the law, disrespect the court or act like a belligerent toddler.

Enoch's religious beliefs are his own personal business, but that doesn't give him the right to impose them on others.

thesandeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120340957#Comment_120340957

Is it a gelding?

looksee

There is absolutely no problem with anyone believing whatever they want, be it main stream religion, cult or individual versions of various faiths or flat earthers, sovereign citizens and freemen, etc. The problem arises when they try and inflict these beliefs on other people, or persuade authority to re-organise everyone's life to accommodate their belief.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341131#Comment_120341131

I suspect the poster is unclear what the difference is between science and beliefs based on spiritual conviction rather than proof. It may not be possible to give a yes or no answer to the question, I’m not religious so I can’t give any personal insight. But I wouldn’t expect a priest to answer yes to something that is scientifically impossible, but I would expect him to say his faith leads him to believe so.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120341131#Comment_120341131

Never said they needed approval. I'm just curious to hear how they respond to straight simple questions that's all.