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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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    #782
    Magnolia Hissing Youth
    Posts: 0 ✭ Magnolia Hissing Youth


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087423#Comment_120087423

    Would you get a grip mate the mental gymnastics you are doing to make the school out to be at fault here.

    Like every workplace the school was following the procedures. A senior member of staff (the principal) was confronted, loudly & publicly, at a school dinner & before that at a church service. In response to this Burke was suspended on full pay pending a dislplincary hearing. A perfectly normal and reasonable process one which is standard for many workplaces.

    Burke however continued to turn up for work, duties which he was temporarily suspended from, occupying empty classrooms and corridors. Causing disruption.

    The school then took the legal routes to make sure he stopped attending because his behaviour is abnormal and disruptive at least. The fact is if Burke got away with this what would that say about the school? What would students think? Mr. Burke can shout about transgenderism being wrong at public school events, aggressively confront the principal scot free?

    Yeah I bet that’ll go well, I’m sure all the students, staff & parents would have great respect for school rules and policies. You need to log off and give your face a wash if you think for a second that Burke was wronged here. he’s not the victim he’s the instigator. Have a think for a second, what’s the common trend in all of the actions the school took?

    When BURKE was suspended, after BURKE made a scene, then BURKE continued to show up to work, when the school then sought and injunction to stop BURKE defying the dislplincary process, then BURKE ignored it and ended up in prison.

    The commend trend is Enoch Burke. He’s not only shown blatant disrespect towards students and the LGBT community, but to the school, his peers and seniors, our courts and prisons & Gardai. He’s wasted countless amounts of time, money & court time and resources to cry about trans people. That’s the bottom line.

    He’s a sad little man clinging onto the desire to be the one who was wronged, seeking the attention he never got. He’s destroyed his career to be the victim. He’s a clown.



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    #783
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,767 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087423#Comment_120087423

    Like not interrupting the prayer service? Not following the principal around to the point people had to physically intervene?


    I agree, Burke had several chances to de-escalate the situation, but he didn't



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    #784
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,680 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120086162#Comment_120086162

    There are no cars in the bible but he lets his daddy drive him to school.

    You can say what you like about the Amish, stuck in the past yes but they believe in live and let live. The Burkes pick and choose the bits from the bible to suit their prejudices. Not much evidence of 'love thy neighbour' with that lot.

    Cancelled 🙄 he's cancelling himself. He's erected a cross on a hill and nailed himself to it, all in the name of fundie US dollars

    Respect for the dignity and equality of all pupils is a minimum requirement to be a teacher

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #785
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087435#Comment_120087435

    TBF L1011 they are at present only allegations. And at work you would still have the right to fair procedure. The report given to him alleged that he followed her, questioning her loudly, it does not say he was aggressive and the context no doubt will also have to be considered, your normal speaking voice may sound loud in a church or dining room if you are talking to someone a few feet away,

    There are a number of facts which seem to be repeated in all media reports, the only proven fact is that he ignored a court order and was jailed for contempt.

    Im so supporter of what he did, and I suspect he will rightly pay a heavy personal and professional price for his intolerance and stupidity. But some to the stuff on this thread is complete fabrication.



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    #786
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,664 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087493#Comment_120087493

    It would still be entirely normal to be suspended pending investigation, in basically every employer out there. And it is not at all normal to try seek court orders to prevent the hearing, which Burke has been doing.

    Trying to claim that it was something minor that could be de-escalated (as was being claimed here) is massively disingenuous.



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    #787
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,680 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120086187#Comment_120086187

    Burke could have made a peaceful, legal, protest outside of the school like the Dunnes workers, but that's not enough drama for him and his mammy and daddy and US backers.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #788
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087502#Comment_120087502

    Indeed , I'm sure we've all had situations where we've noticed we were a bit intense on a subject looking back. And we'd mostly try to get over it by offering an apology to whomever it affected. While Burke is doubling down on it here. It's hard to sit back and say, it was just an over eager foot in mouth kinda thing that got a bit out of hand



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    #789
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087502#Comment_120087502

    I agree, this was not a minor incident, and the correct forum for him to put his case forward was undoubtedly the Disciplinary Hearing. Whilst I don’t agree with the other poster that the school should have deescalated, it does appear like the school were at the very least unwilling to discuss this with him before it came to a head.



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    #790
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087332#Comment_120087332

    You're taking my post out of context, I was replying to a post saying that you would not get a job unless you were a good catholic.

    I wasn't defending catholic controlled schools just saying that in the day to day running catholic ethos was not front and center.

    My preferred option would be no church involvement at all, whether catholic, church of Ireland or whatever.

    In my school a staff members religion is not an issue so probably plenty of atheists.



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    #791
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,680 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087166#Comment_120087166

    Ah get outta town would ya with that nonsense.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #792
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087183#Comment_120087183

    It doesn't matter whether his actions stem from strongly held beliefs it is his actions that are under debate.

    Just because they stem from his beliefs doesn't make them admirable.

    If a Muslim teacher refused to let girls into his class without a hijab would you admire his strongly held beliefs?



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    #793
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,680 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087242#Comment_120087242

    Of course he did. There is, so far, only one child in that school that policy applies to. He's a coward using his position of responsibility to bully a child who is in a particularly vulnerable position and cannot speak out against him (or else they'd get suspended!!)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #794
    Morris Garren
    Registered Users Posts: 519 ✭✭✭Morris Garren


    Maybe Enoch will deliver a passionate speech to his defiant supporters- some among this thread- to rally the troops some day soon. I can hear it now, rising steadily against a tide of regressive liberalism, holding onto what is dear to him and his kind. In the midlands of Ireland, he stands like the Roman, and seems to see the River Shannon, foaming with much blood! I can almost hear the chorus of execration while he's at it...



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    #795
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087598#Comment_120087598

    He objected to a policy introduced by the school in an email in May 22 from the Principal, it has been reported on often enough that you don’t have to take my word for it.

    Why do you think the child would be suspended for speaking out?



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    #796
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,699 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087166#Comment_120087166


    And they can get out of the hole by apologising


    The school aren’t in any hole, nor do they have anything to apologise for. Enoch knew what the school policies were, and he knew the process for making his objections to the policy known to the Board of Management.

    He was suspended in accordance with the disciplinary process as a consequence of his behaviour. The school had to get an injunction, again because Enoch decided he wasn’t going to abide by the school’s disciplinary procedures and turned up at the school when he had no permission to be on school grounds -

    Last August Mr Burke was suspended on full pay by the school over allegations of misconduct made against him.

    As part of the terms of his suspension he was directed to stay away from the school until the disciplinary process had been completed.

    The school claimed that he refused to comply with its direction, and obtained a High Court injunction preventing Mr Burke from attending at and attempting to teach any classes at the school.

    Arising out of his failure to comply with the court order, he was deemed to be in contempt of court and was incarcerated at Mountjoy Prison for three months.

    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/teacher-enoch-burke-seeks-high-28874073.amp



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    #797
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,513 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    A school had to get a court injunction against a teacher. That should tell people what kind of toerag behaviour they were faced with.



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    #798
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,065 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087545#Comment_120087545

    Well it sometimes take one side to see how things might turn out and deescalate. Given that Burke was hot under the collar as regards the school policy request, you could argue that the principal and BOM should have thought ahead and managed the situation. Surely there were other options, like a calm conversation and exploration of how all could be accommodated.

    To be clear, I don't carry any torch for Burke's views on the matter. But neither do I care for hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to religious influence in education.

    It's also clear that some of the commentary on this and other thread is way over the top. There are people here carrying torches, to set fire to the pyre that would burn Burke figuratively at the stake!

    Personally I can't offer any more of use on the issue, until there are further developments.



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    #799
    Tork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,406 ✭✭✭Tork


    It'll be interesting to see how Wednesday's appeal against the disciplinary hearing taking place will go. Even if he fobs it off for now, it absolutely has to happen doesn't it?



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    #800
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087423#Comment_120087423

    Yes they escalated by suspension because of Burkes completely unreasonable actions. The schools actions were all reasonable here. Burkes actions were not.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #801
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,680 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087493#Comment_120087493

    Dozens if not hundreds of witnesses, but whatever. It's Burke who is obstructing the fair procedure. He stupidly got himself jailed when the disciplinary hearing was supposed to take place and now he's going to the High Court to try to stop the rearranged disciplinary hearing taking place.

    As usual with the Burkes, facts and reason are irrelevant and nothing other than the complete capitulation of their "opponent" will satisfy them.

    For someone who is no supporter of what he did, you do go to quite a lot of effort to come up with excuses.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #802
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    This thread pretty much sums up boards of late. Guy does really bad thing that no reasonable person can argue against.

    27 pages of people arguing that he really didn't do a bad thing and it's not taken in the right context and, honestly, the parents are probably to blame.



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    #803
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087756#Comment_120087756

    Correcting your misinformation should not be mistaken for support.

    Most recent example, why are you stating the child would be suspended if they spoke out?



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    #804
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,761 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087523#Comment_120087523

    Who are the US backers and how would they benefit in this case?



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    #805
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,136 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087762#Comment_120087762

    Posts 3 & 4 were entirely neutral on the matter....



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    #806
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,680 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087547#Comment_120087547

    The word "probably" there is very revealing, I mean if there was an "out" gay teacher you'd know about them one way or the other. Seems they're doing the usual Irish thing of keeping their heads down and paying lip service to the church, they wouldn't feel obliged to do that if their religion was in reality not an issue in the school. Unless it's ETB you can guarantee that non-christians are disadvantaged at hiring stage, and even then about half of ETB secondaries are openly catholic ethos.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #807
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,680 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087617#Comment_120087617

    Why wouldn't they be? Burke is still a member of staff.

    If Burke had kept his objections in the appropriate channels, behind closed doors, none of what happened later would have occurred. Burke wanted it to happen. You are continually defending him with, at best, half-truths.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #808
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,468 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087825#Comment_120087825

    That’s not an answer, it’s another question,

    You stated the child would be suspended if they spoke out, why? If the parents said they were very upset and the child felt bullied by what has transpired, why would they be suspended?



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    #809
    growleaves
    Registered Users Posts: 7,857 ✭✭✭growleaves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087762#Comment_120087762

    Many posters on the thread are people who spend every day of their life denigrating Christianity. They would go to 100 pages, 200 pages, 300 pages even if no one is arguing back. Then they will go hundreds on the next thread like this. They do this because they want to.

    Dav argues about the characterisation of whether 'questioning loudly' qualifies as "a history of violence" (Boggles) and of course that is untakeable and causes multi-page arguments.

    Personally I like to throw in one or two posts explaining basic Christian theology in case some curious neutral person is reading then I'm gone onto something else.



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    #810
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,680 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087678#Comment_120087678

    Yeah, you don't carry any torch for Burke's views but somehow it's all the school's fault how things have turned out. 🙄 It's also funny how it's others that need to accommodate Burke, never the other way around...

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #811
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120087617#Comment_120087617

    Its not a policy per se though. Its a decision consistent with all of the school policies. The school admission and anti bullying policies all set out recognition of inclusion and diversity. You'd wonder why Burke never objected before to any of them.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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