Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

Str8outtaWuhan · 28-08-2023 2:34pm

Seems Enoch was prophetic. New sphe curriculum to be taught to this year's 1st yrs.

https://www.curriculumonline.ie/Junior-Cycle/Short-Courses/SPHE-2023/SPHE-toolkit/Myself-as-an-SPHE-teacher/

TLDR, teachers must use preferred pronouns and avoid gendered language like "boys, girls, lads, ladies, guys, mum,dad etc"

Oscar_Madison · 28-08-2023 2:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038445#Comment_121038445

My god seriously would you be a teacher these days having to deal with all of that- I’d be petrified I’d make some innocent mistake that would see me hauled over the coals

28-08-2023 2:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038445#Comment_121038445

Thats excellent, great to see our education becoming more inclusive

Deebles McBeebles · 28-08-2023 2:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038477#Comment_121038477

To be fair, I highly doubt one innocent mistake would see you hauled over the coals. They do chop off a finger for your 2nd mistake though. 3rd strike is execution, I believe.

Oscar_Madison · 28-08-2023 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038537#Comment_121038537

🤪 the sensitivities though these days are quite something else- as a non teacher I’d have a lot of work to do before I’d have my ps and qs in order.

Calahonda52 · 28-08-2023 3:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038445#Comment_121038445

This will need a bit of work then:

The Word Became Flesh

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome a it.

6There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

15(John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”) 16Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and b is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

John the Baptist Denies Being the Messiah

19Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders c in Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. 20He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Messiah.”

21They asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?”

He said, “I am not.”

“Are you the Prophet?”

He answered, “No.”

22Finally they said, “Who are you? Give us an answer to take back to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?”

23John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, “I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord.’ ” d

24Now the Pharisees who had been sent 25questioned him, “Why then do you baptize if you are not the Messiah, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?”

26“I baptize with e water,” John replied, “but among you stands one you do not know. 27He is the one who comes after me, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.”

28This all happened at Bethany on the other side of the Jordan, where John was baptizing.

John Testifies About Jesus

29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”

32Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.” f

John’s Disciples Follow Jesus

35The next day John was there again with two of his disciples. 36When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!”

37When the two disciples heard him say this, they followed Jesus. 38Turning around, Jesus saw them following and asked, “What do you want?”

They said, “Rabbi” (which means “Teacher”), “where are you staying?”

39“Come,” he replied, “and you will see.”

So they went and saw where he was staying, and they spent that day with him. It was about four in the afternoon.

40Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus. 41The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, “We have found the Messiah” (that is, the Christ). 42And he brought him to Jesus.

Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter g ).

Jesus Calls Philip and Nathanael

43The next day Jesus decided to leave for Galilee. Finding Philip, he said to him, “Follow me.”

44Philip, like Andrew and Peter, was from the town of Bethsaida. 45Philip found Nathanael and told him, “We have found the one Moses wrote about in the Law, and about whom the prophets also wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

46“Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?” Nathanael asked.

“Come and see,” said Philip.

47When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, “Here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit.”

48“How do you know me?” Nathanael asked.

Jesus answered, “I saw you while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you.”

49Then Nathanael declared, “Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the king of Israel.”

50Jesus said, “You believe h because I told you I saw you under the fig tree. You will see greater things than that.” 51He then added, “Very truly I tell you, i you jwill see ‘heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending on’ k the Son of Man.”

FishOnABike · 28-08-2023 3:04pm

Could an injunction be granted prohibiting anyone from transporting him to the school or anywhere within a certain distance of the school? It might make it difficult to get there if he can't get a lift every day.

28-08-2023 3:06pm

Scarleh for ye.

Oscar_Madison · 28-08-2023 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038621#Comment_121038621

I think it was since proven that he’s not the messiah, just a very naughty boy.😀

amacca · 28-08-2023 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038445#Comment_121038445

I find Enoch ridiculous and I find that ridiculous

Avoid gendered language....**** right off....if that TLDR is correct I don't have a problem using/adding in other genders use they/them etc but I'm not going to be policing my use of boys, girls, guys, mum, dad etc ...

bmc58 · 28-08-2023 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038579#Comment_121038579

You're not the only one.When replying to an e mail last week I almost said the booth was "unmanned" and had a rethink.I said "unpersoned" just to be PC.This stuff is gone too far.

Breaston Plants · 28-08-2023 3:24pm

With his fines and legal costs so high, everyone knows he has no intention of paying. Can the courts start seizing assets?

expectationlost · 28-08-2023 3:25pm

when will the courts enforce the fine?

Str8outtaWuhan · 28-08-2023 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038668#Comment_121038668

From "making my class room inclusive" pdf.

For example, you could replace “boys and girls”

or “lad and ladies” with phrases like “everyone” or

“folks” and you can use “parents" instead of "mums and dads"

CrookedJack · 28-08-2023 3:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038668#Comment_121038668

You should read the thing before you form an opinion - it seems quite reasonable.

• Avoid unnecessary grouping students on the grounds of gender. This can overtly and subtly repeat assumptions and stereotypes about gender and it can also silence and exclude some students who may identity as transgender or non-binary. For example, you could replace “boys and girls” or “lad and ladies” with phrases like “everyone” or “folks” and you can use “parents and guardians” instead of “Mums and Dads”.

I don't see any problems there

Lollipop95 · 28-08-2023 3:32pm

To my understanding, the Burke family's angle is that Enoch was fired because he refused to use a student's correct pronouns (A student, I believe he wasn't even teaching). But the actual story is that Enoch confronted the principal at an event shouting at him and this lead to the suspension - which then lead to him being fired because he violated the suspension terms by turning up to his place of work every day. Is this right?

Interestingly, I've heard that he was pretty well liked by students before all of this!

Doctor Jimbob · 28-08-2023 3:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038445#Comment_121038445

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038743#Comment_121038743

Quoting the whole section here as I don't think the snippets/TLDR accurately portray the intent.

"Avoid unnecessary grouping students on the grounds of gender. This can overtly and subtly repeat assumptions and stereotypes about gender and it can also silence and exclude some students who may identity as transgender or non-binary. For example, you could replace “boys and girls” or “lad and ladies” with phrases like “everyone” or “folks” and you can use “parents and guardians” instead of “Mums and Dads”."

It seems to me that this is referring to using more inclusive language when speaking about these things in a general sense. It is NOT telling teachers that they should avoid using terms like "Mum and Dad" altogether.

Oscar_Madison · 28-08-2023 3:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038723#Comment_121038723

And look I’m not “anti this or anti that”- up to a few years ago I would have rated myself quite high in terms of inclusive language and being culturally sensitive-

but like you’d need a training course on what not to say these days - I dunno, I just think we’re starting kids too early on some of this stuff -especially around some of the gender and sexuality education type of information - 1st year or even 6th class is time enough I would have said but what do I know 😀

Deebles McBeebles · 28-08-2023 3:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038772#Comment_121038772

That's pretty much it. Although the media have been quite complicit in making it seem as if it's a transgender issue. Need the views, I guess. Oh, and the principal was a female, I'm unsure as to their preferred pronouns 😉

Str8outtaWuhan · 28-08-2023 4:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038775#Comment_121038775

Afaik those documents are used as the basis of the inspections by the dept of education. So logically if a sphe teacher doesn't identify themselves during an inspection using pronouns and doesn't use gender neutral language they would not be following these guidelines and this could theoretically become a fitness to teach issue if a particularly energetic principal was to take them on for failing to follow "best practice".

hoodie6029 · 28-08-2023 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038445#Comment_121038445

Ordained a priest and you can be called Father/Vicar/Rev. Get to the top of an army and you’re General for the rest of your days. Finish medical training? What’s up Doc?

Gerry Adams was Crown Steward and Bailiff of the Manor of Northstead for a while and now isn’t. Nobody bats an eyelid at the request/expectation to use these and dozens of other names, titles or pronouns.

So what if a kid or anyone else wants to be addressed a certain way? In fact, they have ample precedent to support their request.

salmocab · 28-08-2023 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038723#Comment_121038723

But in your example you were the one that changed it from unmanned, you decided to be PC and now appear to be moaning about your own decision. I doubt anyone would have said anything about using the word unmanned correctly.

EDIT apologies I see I missed the joke, won’t delete as a warning to myself over jumping the gun.

blackwhite · 28-08-2023 4:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038772#Comment_121038772

TBH - even "confronted at a school event shouting at her" probably understates what he did.

He firstly interrupted a school religious service that was being held to mark the school's 260th anniversary, shouting at both the principal and at members of the board of management. There was a dinner scheduled for after the religious service. He interrupted that also - confronting the principal again. She asked him to wait for a more appropriate place to discuss it, and tried to walk away, but he started following her whilst roaring and shouting until he was physically stopped from continuing to follow her.

Regardless of the issue that sparked his outbursts, anyone behaving like that towards a colleague at work should expect to be subject to disciplinary procedures.

Str8outtaWuhan · 28-08-2023 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038924#Comment_121038924

In all the above examples a teacher can't get in trouble or lose there job or be told they aren't a good teacher by not using them. In fact with the exception of state security services, you won't get in trouble in any job public or private for refusing to use someone's personal pronouns unless your an sphe teacher, or in Enoch's case.

jacool · 28-08-2023 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038924#Comment_121038924

I believe that the "Manor of Northstead" was renamed "Themor of Northstead" or "Personor of Northstead", unless I am mistaken?

Deebles McBeebles · 28-08-2023 4:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121038932#Comment_121038932

Unless my radar is off, I think that post was satirical.

hoodie6029 · 28-08-2023 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121039031#Comment_121039031

If someone in my office requests to be addressed a certain way and, hypothetically, I refuse to do it, for whatever reason, I can face disciplinary proceedings for workplace harassment/bullying and whatever else. Those proceedings could see me dismissed.

At the very least my actions would, rightly, be considered by my colleagues as a dickhead move.

A teacher, in a position of trust and power has a responsibility to treat the students that they care for and educate with dignity and respect.

Outlining the disciplinary proceedings for not carrying out your duties, and clearly communicating when work practices are changing, is standard practice in any job.