Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073174#Comment_121073174

He, and his family, are being utterly contemptuous of the school, its pupils and teachers, and quite probably intent on the closure of the school as a functioning enterprise seeing as how they, as a family unit, are working hand in hand with him and his activities at the school.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073174#Comment_121073174

That's appalling, he really needs to be dealt with. He's a half-witted nuisance.

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121073330#Comment_121073330

I wonder do the Burke's believe in Limbo?

Any dance that exposes the genital area like that will be strictly verboten.

Lollipop95

I wonder what would happen if Enoch went down the "sane" route so to speak and didn't stand outside the school every day. Would he have a chance of winning his case? He's clearly trying to prove a point because by all accounts, he was a brilliant teacher apparently and so surely would have secured employment elsewhere. It's just sad watching someone so intelligent throw their life away because of their "beliefs" !

I do think his plan all along was to return to jail - maybe he preferred it to being at home, who knows. Probably did him some good not being so indoctrinated.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074562#Comment_121074562

What case?

He was sacked because of his behaviour, not because of his beliefs.

Lollipop95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074604#Comment_121074604

I just don't understand why he's willing to die on the hill that was sacked because of his beliefs when there's evidence to the contrary and witnesses to his behaviour towards the principal. I wonder what would have happened if he'd just kept his mouth shut all along, not brought up his beliefs, and still tried to file an unfair dismissal case. He must have thought in his own head that he had a better chance of being allowed to teach in the school again if he could convince the court he was discriminated against because of his beliefs. Not that I think he should be, nor will he be allowed to teach again. He's proven himself to be totally unstable! And why would he even want to. He could have just left quietly and found another school, instead of it turning into a pantomime and making himself unemployable.

CatFromHue

You're looking for logic when there's a long history of doing illogical things.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074700#Comment_121074700

That is not the Burke way.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074700#Comment_121074700

If he's not harassed the principal and had brought a case instead he might have had some success. I would have been really interested in the result. In these culture war times there's a discussion to be had about conscience and free speech.

If the tables were turned for example and in a catholic school children were told that homosexuality was a sin and a teacher then told them that's it's ok to be gay and if they're gay there's nothing wrong with them, would that be ok?

In a non religious example is it OK for a teacher to condemn russias invasion of ukraine? If so, is it ok for another teacher to support it in class?

Anyone who's seen me in this thread knows that i support trans rights and I would personally think that the teacher in the first example did nothing wrong but where would they stand legally? where's the line between a teachers conscience, free speech and children's welfare.

And I know that people will say the childs welfare should come first, I agree. But how settled is that in law and where's the dividing line between what a teacher is allowed to say? Currently a teacher can say that being gay is a sin in front of a class that includes gay students so the law doesn't always side with child welfare.

Henry Ford III

If he's been sacked how could he still be on the payroll?

The way to get to the Burke's is financially. Enforce the fines.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074904#Comment_121074904

There was supposed to be an appeal of EB's dismissal in front of an independent disciplinary appeal panel. Originally that appeal hearing was supposed to happen on the 21st of April and the school continued to pay him as a courtesy until the outcome of that hearing.

That has now dragged on due to EB's objections to one of the appointed members of the DAP. (Kieran Christie) and EB applied for a high court injunction preventing the DAP from going ahead which was granted temporarily.

The DAP rebutted, and the high court hearing on that injunction was heard on 8 August and the final ruling on it is still pending.

In the meantime the school is still paying him.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121074874#Comment_121074874

I agree with you in that had Burke gone down the formal route of using the existing Complaints/Appeals process to raise his objections about the original request to refer to a pupil by their preferred name it could have resulted in a very useful legal clarification about where the boundaries are between the law of the land and Religious freedom etc.

However , I think that clarification would not have favoured Enoch Burke and his viewpoint and more importantly I think he knew that , which is why he went the "other" route.

Shout, roar, disrupt and delay to put off the inevitable final decision where he's told that he's in the wrong.

It's the same with Ammi - Rather than get the WRC decision which would almost certainly have found against her , she and her mother have repeatedly blown up the hearings and had them cancelled etc.

That way they can continue to tell a story (to those who will listen) of Persecution and unfair treatment rather than simply "We went to court and lost"

Boggles

For the life of me I cannot understand the leeway this guy has been given.

If anyone else hung around a school like a creep and tried to force entry there would be a traffic jam with the amount of squad cars that would be sent.

The poor school staff and children have been badly let down here, it's almost like the justice system are afraid of him.

pixelburp

Kids that age being near permanently online, you'd wonder what they're saying on their various social media groups. The shítposting and memes are probably unreal. Doubtless some think he's a hero, you'd like to think the majority lament him as a dinosaur and prick.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075225#Comment_121075225

To be honest, I'd say they got bored with it after the first month.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075241#Comment_121075241

Yep - Entertaining distraction for a short while , but now just bored indifference.

Maybe the new intake of 1st years are a bit interested this week , but the rest of the pupils couldn't care less I'd say.

Oscar_Madison

Yet more deflection away from the real cause of his suspension/sacking - it’s kind of like the mod warning on this thread, i.e that it’s not a transgender discussion thread - Enoch obviously wants it to be about this issue as a plain old suspension for inappropriate behaviour at a school gathering isn’t where he wants to be with his oh so important godly work

I wonder does he regret his “outburst” in the first instance and if he could go back in time would have done a different approach? Maybe maybe not I guess

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/i-should-be-with-my-students-enoch-burke-at-wilsons-hospital-as-school-bids-to-have-him-jailed-again/a372663710.html

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075241#Comment_121075241

True though I imagine first years and any LGBT+ kids might still have a few choice comments to share amongst themselves.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075804#Comment_121075804

His behaviour is like that of a 14 year old with learning difficulties. And I don't mean that as an insult to 14 year olds with learning difficulties. But you'd expect more from a grown adult, who has gone through college to gain a qualification and is ostensibly intelligent. It's just mantra-repeating at this stage.

His argument falls apart as soon as you consider that he didn't have the faith in it to contest the matter in the proper fashion through the legal process, instead choosing to make it a circus and rely on the bull-headed wave of online populism to promote his cause.

It's no more about his religious beliefs or transgenderism than Putin's invasion is about bringing about wold peace.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075804#Comment_121075804

Thats just a reporter typing exactly what he says without giving any context, background information or facts. And absolutely no pushback on him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075804#Comment_121075804

Holy crap the level of disconnect and delusion is staggering

School: Judge we'd like you to jail EB as he won't abide by the permanent injunction to stay off school grounds

EB: This is outrageous, against my constitutional rights and trying to force me to approve of trans rights.

That's his argument in a nutshell and its bonkers but then it always has been

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075834#Comment_121075834

I've gone back and forth on whether it's just a "madness" or whether there is a calculation behind his actions and I'm leaning more and more toward the latter.

Take it as a given that he is a hard-core religious zealot and the furtherance of his religious views are absolutely paramount.

However , I believe that he knows that his legal position is incredibly weak on the question of "Can I refuse to adhere to the law of the land because of my Religion?"

And as such , rather than calmly follow the legal process that he knew he would ultimately lose he deliberately chose the confrontational provocative approach as the best way to get his views noticed and heard.

His zealotry is such that he is willing to pursue this scorched earth approach no matter the cost , but the decision to go this route was a deliberate one in my view.

pixelburp

"madness" let's Burke off the hook cos it suggests that fundamentally he doesn't know what he's doing, or understand the hurt and problems caused by his stance. He knows precisely the road he's taking, and the words or actions chosen. It is a precise choice to push the "freedom of religion" angle to breaking point.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075874#Comment_121075874

I can't even listen to him. I turned the video off after 20 seconds.

I think that's how long it took him say it was about him refusing to accept "transgenderism".

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075804#Comment_121075804

It's a pity that it didn't cross any of the journalists minds to ask him "Do you think that chasing a colleague around whilst shouting at them is appropriate behaviour?"

Ezeoul

100% this! ^^

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075878#Comment_121075878

Pretty much all religions glorify their martyrs.

Fairly apparent that Enoch sees this as his path to martyrdom

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075878#Comment_121075878

Fully agree. Shame the press are playing along to a large extent.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075923#Comment_121075923

Any media interviews with him have been sadly lacking in any kind of challenge to his "I was fired for my beliefs" narrative.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121075878#Comment_121075878

A zealot you say. Interesting. I’m at two minds myself on that. I don’t think it’s madness I agree - but terms of the zealotry I just can’t get out of my mind that he’s following mammy’s orders.

And if mammy wasn’t around would the kids be pursuing such reckless behaviour to their careers and livelihoods?

I just feel the kids are an extended mouthpiece of the parents and when the parents pass on they may well feel differently. They grew up with all of this confrontational bullshit - it’s been drilled into them - most of the kids appear to still be living with mammy and daddy so there’s likely a huge “obedience” thing going on here.

If you or I , with mortgages or rent to pay, with bills coming in the door, would we really pursue this career suicide approach?