Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

Annasopra

There is absolutely no way this will end up in ECHR.

aloyisious

Given that the school, as a C of I school, is linked to one branch of the Christian community and is accepting of its pupils request to be addressed as They/Them, could there not be a case stated that EB and his Evangelist Christian family are involved in actively waging religious discrimination against the school because it agrees with the pupil's choice AND a separate case stated that EB and his Evangelist family are actively waging religious discrimination against the pupil on a similar basis: denying both the school and the pupil the freedom of religious choice allowed for by the constitution?

The EB case, as stated again and again by him and his family, is that he is being religiously discriminated against by the school. The school plainly does accept children of different religions as pupils and persons of different religious belief as teachers [as shown by it employing him] in an active process under the constitution.

It may be time to fight fire with fire by the state [the AG] stating a case in protection of both the pupil and the school rights in the constitution from the fake religious discrimination claims of EB and his family.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099999#Comment_121099999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121098842#Comment_121098842

He wasn’t last time because he annoyed everyone else so much.. aside from its unfair to the other prisoners having to listen to his shite all day, the fact is he was going to get battered.

I imagine that would cause the prison service a lot of hardship, considering the people involved & they would not be so willing to allow it to happen.

You also cannot be tried for civil contempt of court. It’s not considered a punishment it is a coercion method. The point is to have enoch follow the courts orders not punish him for a period for refusing to do so.

He can only be released by purging his contempt, which he will be periodically brought to court and given the opportunity to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121106596#Comment_121106596

What are you on about? He’s already been to the high court and ruled against plenty of times.

In fact the high court has jailed him for contempt of their orders. Judges have also dismissed his motions in court against the school telling him he cannot defy the court and then seek the courts help.

If I recall correctly it was looking for injunctions to stop his dismissal. So don’t be so sure he’ll go to the LC or Indeed HC. If Ammi’s WRC is anything to go by he won’t get past hour one.

He’ll never be leaving prison without purging contempt and perhaps the court will order the fines paid also. So even if he wins a WRC case, miraculously and is given any compensation he already owes the school legal fees so he’ll get nothing..

On the point of that debt too I’m sure the school can use that to garnish his salary were he reinstated which could render him disinterested in returning anyway.

Either way I strongly imagine the only outcome of any appeal is positive for the school.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107379#Comment_121107379

What are you on about? He’s already been to the high court and ruled against plenty of times.

What confused you exactly?

The high court ruling was around the validity of his suspension not his expulsion which hasn't happened yet.

He’ll never be leaving prison without purging contempt

We don't detain people forever unless they have committed and been convicted of a serious crime. If we did that he would definitely off to higher courts.

Anyway he was let out in December without purging his contempt.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107383#Comment_121107383

EB's line is that what he claims are his religious rights trump ANY rights the pupil has to make a choice and ask for validation by requesting others to use the pronouns they/them while addressing said pupil. It's not a matter of religious belief at all, it's a form of personal address. As you said, using martyrdom he's made it all about himself and is using that as a cover to be personally abusive to others - as exampled in the school meeting and in the high court, aided and abetted by his family. They are abusing the process of justice for no good purpose, following a process used by people of similar belief in another jurisdiction. Hopefully the ECHR would reject any attempt by him and his family to have it hear any case they might make on the grounds that the case has no valid standing before the court.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107640#Comment_121107640

How do you know we don’t do that? Has there been anyone other than Enoch who was put in prison for civil contempt and was let go, without purging, after a period?

Your biggest problem is you’re living in a fantasy whereby he can carry on wasting court time and make inroads back to employment.

I won’t bother correcting the fallacy any further as I’ve realised long ago there is no point at all.

If you have a case of civil contempt with release sub purge though let me know. As far as the Christmas release last year I believe the judge at the time stated it was largely due to burke exploiting his contempt and prison time for his own ends.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107383#Comment_121107383

He was sacked for his behaviour not his beliefs.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107383#Comment_121107383

All utterly irrelevant due to his behaviour.

He doesn't get to seek the defence of the law when he has refused to recognise its existence at any stage in the process.

Any attempt at claiming discrimination will go something like this.

Enoch - Your Honour , I was discriminated against based on my Religious beliefs.

Judge - Did you lodge a formal complaint and raise this issue though the appropriate channels and then fail to get a satisfactory response?

Enoch - No your Honour , I never raised a formal complaint at all , instead I chased my employer around the room at a public event shouting at her and had to be restrained by other Staff members so that she could leave. I then ignored my official suspension and refused to leave the school resulting in over a year of court cases and fines that I have refused to pay. Oh I also called all the other Judges names and refused to purge my contempt, but I was discriminated against your Honour.

Judge - F*ck off Enoch (I'm paraphrasing here)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107383#Comment_121107383

There is no avenue for appeal on human rights as there is no right that allows for being a tool.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107795#Comment_121107795

 Has there been anyone other than Enoch who was put in prison for civil contempt and was let go, without purging, after a period?

Yes, civil contempt as you pointed out is supposed to be coercive not punative.

As far as the Christmas release last year I believe the judge at the time stated it was largely due to burke exploiting his contempt and prison time for his own ends.

And what do you think he is doing now?

Your biggest problem is you’re living in a fantasy whereby he can carry on wasting court time and make inroads back to employment.

Where did I say that? On the contrary.

The game doesn't change.

Burke has no intention of getting his job back, this is about Martyrdom and the grift that comes with it.

Maybe worth reading what posters are saying instead of diving straight in with illogical accusations.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107383#Comment_121107383

So what.

ECHR won't entertain him.

European Court of Human Rights???

Ah here would ye ever listen to yourselves 😂

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108087#Comment_121108087

It's Enoch. I wouldn't put trying past him. The exposure would be too good to turn down.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108105#Comment_121108105

There is no route to the ECHR for him. he is not being sacked for his beliefs. Appeals to labour court decisions can only be made on points of law.

tayto lover

Imagine if he actually got back to teaching in that school and on the first day he could hear children singing '' Happy Birthday to Them ''. I'd say it would drive him even more bonkers than he already is.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107383#Comment_121107383

There is no route for an appeal based on religious freedom to be taken in a case that never involved it.

Burke cannot make a case about being fired for abusive behaviour towards a superior in to a religious freedom case no matter how much he or Mammy thinks they can.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108185#Comment_121108185

Exactly - His complete lack of engagement with the process from the start shuts off pretty much every single appeals pathway.

He can't "appeal" something that never happened.

He never formally challenged the request to use Pro-nouns etc. - He went straight to roaring at his boss leading to his suspension for unprofessional behaviour etc.

So his religious rights have never been impinged because he never gave the employer the opportunity to "impinge" them.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108120#Comment_121108120

Yeah, I know - and I think he knows his job is gone at this stage - but he could challenge on it being an infringement of his rights to express his religion. Even if his belief was nothing to do with his sacking.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121107220#Comment_121107220

Not going to happen

The State actively supports and protects in law the 'right' of religious ethos schools to discriminate in the hiring / retention of staff on religious grounds, the enrolment of pupils on religious grounds, and discrimination during the school day on religious grounds

They will not take a case which risks bringing the whole rotten system down

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099999#Comment_121099999

I don’t think anyone should effectively have to serve a life sentence for contempt of court.

Contempt continues until you purge it. So if he was let out and continued on, he would be still committing it.

An analogy would be a person who is given 6 months for assault going out and continuing to assault people and thinking "Ah sure, I've already served my time for assault"

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108261#Comment_121108261

but it isn't about that. his sacking was never about that. you can't appeal on something that was not part of the decision to sack you.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108399#Comment_121108399

I'm not talking about the sacking

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108535#Comment_121108535

but that is what his court cases are about.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108553#Comment_121108553

No they aren't because he technically hasn't been sacked.

Assuming he gets sacked a whole new range of legal redress opens to him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108105#Comment_121108105

I don’t think you understand how the ECHR works? Do you seriously think you can claim discrimination without ANY evidence and they’ll give you a hearing date?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108851#Comment_121108851

I'm saying I wouldn't put it past him trying.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108105#Comment_121108105

I never said he'd succeed, I never said he'd get a hearing and I never said he's do it to get his job back. HE believes it's about his rights which is why I wouldn't put it past him.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108990#Comment_121108990

You don't get to even try without a coherent basis. That's the point

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108843#Comment_121108843

a whole new range doesn't open up for him. he gets to appeal to the labour court. the labour court will decide if a legal mistake was made by the WRC. it is not a relitigation of the case.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121109129#Comment_121109129

That's 2 more mechanisms to keep him in the news at least.

You can only appeal a labour court ruling on a point of law.

The WRC may find he is entitled to compensation for instance, it could be the school that appeals it to the labour court and so on.

So yes wants we assume he gets fired then yes this circus could go on for another year or 2 at least.

Like I said if an employer does not follow the process exactly the WRC will flag it.

https://www.ibec.ie/employer-hub/hr-management-guide/employment-equality/case-law/wrc-awards-almost-40000-to-manager-with-alcohol-dependency-who-was-dismissed-for-being-intoxicated

It is very hard sack someone in this country.