Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

DUBLINIRL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508373#Comment_121508373

I wouldn't agree with that level of punishment for a lad standing outside a gate who has not shown any intent to cause harm to the kids. I fear for the man who bumps into your child in the supermarket. You might find yourself sharing bunk beds with Enoch and could possibly convince him to stop this foolishness.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508318#Comment_121508318

He is in prison as he entered the grounds.

Why release him to have it do it again, have another day for him and the travelling circus to scream at judges, and get sent straight back in again?

Cheaper, easier, and saner to keep him in until he purges his contempt. The Christmas release last year was a very very bad idea

DUBLINIRL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508405#Comment_121508405

The "Christmas release last year" just reminded me how long this nonsense is going on.

I didn't know he was back in prison until the latest incident of the mother and sister shouting at a judge.

This is some headache for the justice department.

The only thing for it is for paddy power to start offering bets on how many days he will spend in prison during 2024:)

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508453#Comment_121508453

It'll 366 unless he purges his contempt; just as it should be

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508382#Comment_121508382

Burke was given a chance and released for Christmas last year and he threw it back in the Court's face. As soon as the school reopened, he was back there, causing disruption.

After the multiple shows of contempt and disrespect Burke has shown both the Court and various High Court Justices in various appearances over the last year, why should they now show him any leniency?

He is reaping what he sowed.

DUBLINIRL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508487#Comment_121508487

"As soon as the school reopened, he was back there, causing disruption."

If he entered the school lock him up.

If he stayed outside in a public area and didn't threaten anyone then I don't think he deserves to be put in prison.

It all depends to what extent he caused disruption. Prison should be for more serious crimes that some lad standing on a public footpath.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508382#Comment_121508382

Not what you said, apologies I didn't get your insinuation but it's the type of thing a well rounded solicitor would use to their advantage.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508401#Comment_121508401

The funny thing is, while everything here is irrelevant, it's not why he is in prison. as you well know. As a parent, I'd be far more concerned with a lad who hung around outside a school all day than someone who bumped into a kid in the supermarket, as would any normal person

DUBLINIRL

Not if I know his motivation is to get his job back instead of dragging a kid into the bushes. Context.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508518#Comment_121508518

Also irrelevant but it does bring up a valid point, if someone hangs around outside your work place to intimidate either you or junior staff, are their actions illegal? Enoch is skirting a fine line with that one but the benefits of a good solicitor, it wouldn't be hard to show that it was done with intimidation in mind or in effect.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508487#Comment_121508487

Basically what the Burkes are saying is screw the laws, the judicial system and democracy, we are going to do what we like and too bad if other peoples rights get trampled on in the process. It is just another version of the “soc cit” nonsense and accepting that kind of behavior sends a clear message to every clown out there that they don’t need to respect society and abide by the rule of law either.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508518#Comment_121508518

He did enter the grounds, and the school itself, and he did cause disruption.

It's documented, so why do you keep saying "if"?

He was under a High Court injuction that ordered him to stay away from to school. He chose to ignore that and is now suffering the consequences of his choice.

Quite frankly, everything else is irrelevant.

DUBLINIRL

Sure, if their intention is to cause intimidation and the staff feel intimidated to a standard that 'a reasonable person' would agree then it's back to prison.

A rationale person would know that going there would not aid his case to be reinstated. He likely also received legal advice to this effect.

His family have been holding protests for years in Castlebar and in Dublin. He is just doing what he did as a kid with his parents except this time he breached a court order and doesn't know how to back down as this is just another stage of the protest. He is a martyr against injustice and therefore can't back down and his more devout family members are probably encouraging him to fight on. I'd say his mother and the sister who is a solicitor along with the young lad who carries the plastic box of legal documents would all be just as stubborn if backed into a corner.

He won't get his job back or be offered a teaching post elsewhere by the department of education so where is the compromise for him to back down and end the nonsense?

I'd guess they let him out once the academic year ends in the summer and hope he doesn't show back up in September and that way he doesn't have to back down and agree to anything so it just ends quietly.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508588#Comment_121508588

That's not his motivation any more than he's in prison for his beliefs.

.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508518#Comment_121508518

He did. But if he was in jail purely for tresspaass or causing disruption, I'd agree it was heavy handed; but the reality is he never actually got prosecuted for it, let alone convicted.

DUBLINIRL

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508606#Comment_121508606

I suppose it's because my interest comes and goes into the show depending on how ridiculous the latest twist in the tail is so I haven't really followed each step along the way.

When I wake up in the morning I won't care about what is happening until some random weekend a couple of months from now when I open the Irish times app and the headline is interesting enough to get me to read the article or it might be the picture of one of the Burke's being carried out of a courthouse by 4 gardai.

I'll probably click in to see if it is Enoch or the young lad and the story might grab me and you might hear from me again to offer my take as it happens to be at that time.

The amount of sleep I got the night before will probably bear heavily on my opinion. I had a lie in this morning with it being a Sunday so I'm in a more forgiving mood.

lumphammer2

I would like to know exactly who Enoch Burke and the Burkes are puppets for ?? ... there are clearly very sinister forces trying to infiltrate Ireland as we know in recent times ... I think EB and his family are clearly working obo someone bigger than them ... Burke is intelligent as are his family ... intelligent people do not go to jail for months on end over some trivia ... they are in there because they are clearly afraid of what ever org they tied themselves in with .... giving up clearly means a worse fate than prison .... if prison was their only concern they'd sign that abide by the rules form and would be on their merry way ...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508633#Comment_121508633

He's not intelligent, he's intellecutal. There's a difference.

I doubt there's any higher power pulling the strings here - why would they waste their time with it? What's in it for them? It's not like Enoch is staying in jail to keep some consipracy under wraps.

lumphammer2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508665#Comment_121508665

It is all to cause trouble/destabilise countries ... it is related to all the other things going on that made the news in Ireland recently ... it is all part of a far right organised narrative with links to the Republicans in the US maybe Russia too ... it is part of this new cold war pitting normal politics against far right destabilisers ... no one goes to prison for so long on a trivial matter imv .... plus who was paying him to get from his home to his former workplace plus the food they need while there? Fuel and food while not working = not cheap ... it is very obvious that there is some other entity pulling Burke's strings here and he is willing to do time for them ... EB is an agent of someone else/doing the donkey work for someone else ...

G_R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508629#Comment_121508629

I honestly think it's as simple as this:

The courts need to be able to enforce their authority, otherwise law and order would break down. The court simply cannot allow someone to point blank refuse to follow their ruling - otherwise, whats the incentive for a guy who has a baring order not go within 200m of his ex that he was as abusing to obey it.

There needs to be consequences to your actions - this is the consequence of refusing to follow a court order. No more, no less.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508614#Comment_121508614

He won't get his job back or be offered a teaching post elsewhere by the department of education so where is the compromise for him to back down and end the nonsense

That's not how the law works though, especially not in respect to contempt. It's not the responsibility of either the courts or the school to offer a "compromise" because Burke's behaviour ensured he was slapped with a court order - and his belligerent refusal to respect the process or adhere to the court's ruling got him slapped with a second contempt charge.

He was already given the compromise - the original contempt threat, rescinded at Xmas - he has failed or refused to learn. While his behaviour with the school authorities necessitated legal intervention in the first place.

By all accounts Burke being in jail is ludicrous but he has put himself there and can easily get himself out. I don't enjoy the fact this wannabe martyr is in jail on our dime, or that his family have been lifted out of court for their own disruptive abuse of the law, but here we are.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508401#Comment_121508401

If I were an LGBT teen, I imagine it would be deeply unpleasant to be facing him every single morning. Teens have enough stress to deal with, they don't need a bigot at the gates every morning.

DUBLINIRL

Should bigotry result in a prison sentence? I have a feeling I'm going down a deep dark hole without a bottom.... Good thing I have to start work now.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508778#Comment_121508778

Why are you so unwilling to accept what he's in prison for?

It's not his bigotry. It's contempt of court, nothing else

He can leave when he wants to

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508778#Comment_121508778

your many attempts to frame this situation into something it's not, despite being told numerous times over what the actually facts are, and your respective of "oh I didn't know"... Just shows that you are trolling and grieving this thread.

The facts are simple:

1. He's not in jail for his religious views

2. He can leave jail wherever he wants

3. He was not simply standing on a public path

4. He is not the victim in this situation

Until you accept these simple truths, your view point will remain ill informed.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508778#Comment_121508778

You keep misrepresenting the critical part that Burke's bigotry is not, 1000% not, the reason he's in jail. Nor is the court order from the school down to bigotry. It's getting a bit frustrating and tedious repeating this refrain.

This would go a lot smoother if you tried to catch up on the particulars and stop this "oh I'm too busy to look too hard" routine?

DUBLINIRL

I've acknowledged the reason he is in jail. I've clearly stated I'm aware he is in jail due to contempt of court.

I've just expressed an opinion that if he were to be let out of prison and then chooses to stand on a public footpath outside the school that he should not be sent back to prison.

The moment he steps foot on school grounds during school hours then lock him back up.

I also don't think a man should be locked away indefinitely for this but I don't know what the solution is.

The internet is a bit too quick to try to get someone fired/punished/burnt at the stake. We live in a world where people have different points of view. We don't have to agree and we don't have to punish those that don't share our view.

I think that after a period of time he can be let out with a warning that if he steps onto school grounds he will be arrested immediately. Maybe being locked up for Christmas will have changed his mind especially if someone tries to have a rational conversation with him before he is released. Give him a chance to go away quietly without having to publicly back down.

We are dealing with an incredibly stubborn man but he is not a bad man. Give him a way out of this that doesn't involve him having to publicly back down after everything he has gone through to back up his belief system (however out of line it may be with modern Ireland).

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508677#Comment_121508677

Conspiracy theories -> -> ->

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508850#Comment_121508850

We already know he'll go back on school grounds as we've done all of this already

The minute he agrees to obey the court order, he gets out. That is entirely his decision to make. If he refuses to do it because he doesn't want to be seen to back down that is nobodies problem but his.

And he is a bad person - a very, very bad person. Targeted harassment campaigns against politicians, judges, lawyers etc. The Sally Maaz stuff.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508850#Comment_121508850

The internet is a bit too quick to try to get someone fired/punished/burnt at the stake. We live in a world where people have different points of view. We don't have to agree and we don't have to punish those that don't share our view.

You're doing it again only now misrepresentation people's motivations as well as again trying to quietly rebadge the issue as of a good man and his beliefs being harshly punished. Your last line indeed just repeats what has already been said so I'm starting to question your own motivation TBH.

We also live in a world of laws and if any man decides to repeatedly ignore a court order and contempt charge then into jail they go. Burke already had a taste of jail - yet here we are again. Quibbling over the distance from the school from which he's protesting is itself a flagrant misuse of the court order - the "public footpath" is just transparent noodling with the terms of the order; these things can be extended given someone being enough of a pest.

You'd be singing a much different tune I suspect were this a restraining order against an abusive partner - but because it's assumed Burke is some godly man of peace his actions have more purity than others? His actions have not matched your presumed goodness.

randd1

Him standing outside the gates of the school, I don't see the problem with it. It's a public area, as far as I'm aware he's committed no crime and is not subject to any orders regarding violence or threatening behaviour. Let him stand there, rain or shine. And (I'm not advocating for them either) him standing there, I suspect that a group of young lads with eggs, an overused and leaking portaloo, or a cabal of drag queens raunchily snogging the face off each other would move him on. I'm surprised the eggs haven't happened yet to be honest. But regardless, leave him off, he's outside the gate, he's bothering no-one really, and more importantly he's doing nothing illegal, which means he's just simple a man standing around.

Going into the school, as he has done, is an entirely different matter however. If any adult who had no part of the school walked in and stood in the hallway all day, you'd want him out of the school, regardless of his past affiliations to the school. If I walked into the secondary school I attended nowadays and just stood in the hallway outside a classroom, I'd expect to be arrested for doing so. That's what Burke has done. And if he keeps coming back, then use the law, which is what the school has done. If he ignores the law, then put orders on him to obey the law, which is what the Courts have done. And if he ignores those orders, which is what Burke has done, then jail him, which is what the Courts have done.

And that's exactly what happened. Not his religious beliefs, not even his behaviour within the school and ignoring of it's procedures (the type of carry on which would get you the sack from any job), but his refusal to engage with or accept the outcome of work procedures and the law, and his utter childish, demented and ultimately deliberately ignorant way of confronting it.

I don't want this to be a country where a non-violent person, with very little chance of ever committing violence, like Enoch Burke, spend years in jail for a protest, no matter how demented that protest is. But even more so, I don't want this to be a country where the law can simply be ignored without any consequences.

The situation with Burke has now gone beyond the just him losing his job for being a thoroughly unprofessional ignoramus part. At this point, it's about whether or not the law of the land needs to be upheld or whether the law of the land no longer has power. As much as I don't want to see him in jail for 20 years due to his own ignorance and odd decision-making, or even his outrageous behaviour (and that of his family) in Court, I very much less want to see a country where the law no longer applies. If that means Burke has to spend 20 years behind bars (again, it's his decision to do so), then that's what has to be done.

The test with Enoch Burke now is whether the law matters, or not. The law, quite simply, has to win this one. And if that means Burke spend his life in prison, then that's what needs to happen.