Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

Hoof Hearted2

Agreed, incredibly sad to see intelligent, well educated people completely lose the run of themselves and for what?

Endgame? I guess Enoch and the Burkes come to their senses and respect the rule of law or the rest of us all bow to their superior, unquestionable, unalterable knowledge!

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264661#Comment_122264661

The majority of the population do not agree with him. The only people out protesting in his support are the Burkes. Online likes and comments do not count as support when they are not reflected in the real world.
It’s a story that generates clicks so the media follow it. It is an unusual story too. That will always generate interest. Uber religious guy standing at a school gate for months at a time isn’t something you come across every day.
He will never stop trying to attend Wilson’s. Prision is the only place for him. I know it is very unlikely to happen but the only hope he has is if a specialist can break his brainwashing. But 40 odd years of it, surrounded by it and probably indoctrinated the younger members of the family and kept them in line, I don’t hold much hope.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264661#Comment_122264661

It's not just that she lost a well paying job, she lost an entire career by making herself unemployable. No solicitor's firm in the country would touch her with a very, very long barge pole now, after her antics on the employment case and elsewhere.

myfreespirit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264661#Comment_122264661

I agree that there must be a better way for them to direct their energies.

But, and it is a big but, they are consistently behaving like mindless zealots, religious fanatics from the Middle Ages, so I doubt that the majority of the population agrees with him.

Brenda Power, writing in the Sunday Times a while back, argued (correctly, in my view) that Enoch Burke has done immeasurable harm to the view that transgender ideology has gone too far. I'm inclined to agree with her.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265785#Comment_122265785

I feel bad for any unrelated Burke from Castlebar as that name is surely a massive red flag not worth risking now.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265785#Comment_122265785

Ironically, if a couple of them moved to the US and campaigned from there they would find themselves very welcome and in demand quite quickly. They could fund this nonsense for ages and drag us into a culture war we're not really ready for.

PeadarCo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264697#Comment_122264697

The thing that will change the current situation is when his appeal of his dismissal is heard. Does anyone have any idea of when the appeal will be heard?

Once Enoch exhausts his appeal options and assuming his dismissal is upheld the situation changes. Once/assuming that happens and he continues to turn up at the school it will be easier to charge him with trespass. At that stage the normal criminal justice process can take it's course. It's probable you'd imagine he would face a formal custodial sentence in that situation given everything that's gone on.

The sooner his appeal of his dismissal is heard the sooner the better for everyone. I assume there are good reasons why the process has dragged on for so long, the guts of 2 years at this stage even accounting for the delays enforced by Enoch's antics.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265950#Comment_122265950

No idea what the delay is, and I'd love to know.

EB won a last minute temporary injuction against the Disciplinary Appeal Panel hearing going ahead last year, on the basis of Kieran Christie of ASTI being a member of the panel, but that was later overturned.

He has appeared before the High Court via video link from Mountjoy before, so no reason (that I am aware of) why he couldn't do the same for the DAP - but others may know if there is a reason.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122265934#Comment_122265934

I suspect they already have American money coming in

salmocab

we waste so much tax in this country but I have no problem with some of it being wasted on keeping him living in mountjoy. He seems to enjoy it and he’s knocking about outside a school.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122260041#Comment_122260041

There'll be plenty of room in the Burkes' heaven. There'll be nobody not related to them in there for a start.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122261471#Comment_122261471

Or maybe he didn't have a case worth a damn no matter how it was argued, accepted the offered apology and moved on with his life instead of clogging up the courts with yet more nonsense.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264661#Comment_122264661

It's such a waste of energy and effort which could far better be directed to productive things.

But that's religion in a nutshell, the Burkes just take it to another level.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264697#Comment_122264697

since when does the President have the power to overrule the courts?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264822#Comment_122264822

I don't recall a plebiscite being performed. So you (and Geuze) can put that assertion right back where you pulled it out of.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268210#Comment_122268210

I'm asking the question - Geuze suggested that the majority of the population agree with him on the substantive issue. I was asking which issue specifically Geuze thought this about. I can't imagine many will support Burke in anything...

Hotblack Desiato

You made it look like you were saying it, rather than quoting it - by mistake? This site has gone to hell since getting rid of vBulletin.

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268237#Comment_122268237

One might indeed agree with EB on the substantive issue, depending of course on what his defindefinition of that is, although if it is what I think it is then I'll say no more as I may breach thread rules on this topic.

dulpit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268258#Comment_122268258

Ya, it's a pain alright not being able to split quotes.

To be clear: Enoch is a ghoul.

OldGoat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268207#Comment_122268207

Since the founding of the state.

I only know this because it came up as recently as April this year in questions to the Minister of Justice.
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2024-04-17/100/

ARTICLE 13 - 6

6 The right of pardon and the power to commute or remit punishment imposed by any court exercising criminal jurisdiction are hereby vested in the President, but such power of commutation or remission may also be conferred by law on other authorities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category%3ARecipients_of_Irish_presidential_pardons

knucklehead6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268353#Comment_122268353

oh get off the fence and tell us how you really feel about Burke! 😜

Just to be clear, I agree totally with you.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268375#Comment_122268375

HHe Is jailed for civil contempt. Open to correction but this does not fall under criminal jurisdiction.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268375#Comment_122268375

Nitpick: Burke's not currently in prison on account of any criminal conviction or sentence. He's in custody for failure to comply with a court order, which is a civil matter. I don't think the Constitution (or any other law) gives the President the power to "pardon" him for this or to "remit or commute" the court's order that he be held in custody. This is a matter for the courts, and the presidential power of pardon doesn't extend to it.

(The question is academic since, even if the power did apply, it would not be exercised. As matters stand, if Burke were released it's clear that he would immediately return to the school and would be arrested again. I'm pretty sure that neither the President nor the Government would welcome this.)

OldGoat

I agree with you both (above) that it's open to argument re Criminal Vs. Contempt but then again, the law does love a good argument/debate. It's one of the reasons some of us are following this thread. That and schadenfreude :)

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268375#Comment_122268375

But if he hasn't been convicted of any criminal offence (yet) what is there to pardon?

AFAIK, this is still a civil matter.

Peregrinus

SFAIK the issues has never been tested in the courts, and for the reasons given in my earlier post I don't think it will be in this case either. So not only can we have an excellent argument about it, but it can continue indefinitely because there will be no authoritative answer.

But, still, I'm right.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122264661#Comment_122264661

First of all you don't speak for the majority of the population and based on the recent election results, you might be very surprised about what the majority of the population.

As for jail, that is the appropriate place for someone who actively rejects our democratic processes and the rule of law. And if that means he spends the next 50 years in jail, being released on compassionate grounds in old age so be it. The message must go out loud and clear, nobody, but nobody gets to pick and choose which laws they are going to adhere to. And the cost of keeping him there is a small price for the taxpayer to have to pay to preserve the democracy of the country.

Boggles

We have had decades to fix this grey area in our justice system.

It has been highlighted and flagged by the Supreme Court and the Law Reform Commission. We didn't bother so now the courts find themselves in the unsavoury position of having someone's liberty removed without a trial for an indefinite period again.

This Muppet is in it for the long haul, 3-4-5 years time he will bring his case to the European Courts where he could actually win.

Judges are uneasy about denying bail for cases that can take years to get to court.

I said it at the start and I sill believe it, the school were left high and dry by the criminal justice system. This cretin should have been charged immediately with criminal trespass as the threshold was well exceeded.

If they had did the correct thing from the start we now wouldn't be dealing with absolute cretin wasting everyone's time, money and mental health with him trying to martyr himself to please and enrich his Mammy.

It could take the school years to shake off this clown and get on with it's normal functions.

If one good thing is to come from it, maybe eventually they will reform the laws around contempt.

Quin_Dub

I think the courts will eventually have to find a way to deal with him other than his current "indefinite incarceration".

Holding him in endless contempt of court just doesn't make sense legally speaking.

I'm not for a second advocating that he simply be released so that he can go back to harassing the School but they need to sort something out legally.

They will need to convert his contempt into some chargeable offence and hand down a specific custodial sentence that he can serve.

Whether that is linked to trespass or perhaps even some new laws to deal with this specific kind of protest.

Sending someone to jail for contempt is supposed to be a quick "straightener" for the person ensuring that they come to their senses and engage with the courts correctly. The Burkes have shown that they simply will not do this , their religious indoctrination ensures it, so new legislation is possibly needed to allow for a specific sentence to be applied for those that indicate that they have no intention of ever purging their contempt.

That fixed sentence can be reapplied over and over , but the current "indefinite incarceration" isn't a long term solution.

aloyisious

When the school term resumes, It'll be interesting to see if other members of Enoch's family decide to picket outside Wilson's school to show their ongoing support of him on the issue of him [as he alleges] being obliged, as apart of his employment as a teacher there, to accept and go along with the wishes of at least one pupil there to be addressed by a self-chosen pronoun, instead of gallivanting around the countryside shocking the nations TD's and ministers, seeing how [according to Mrs Burke] the TD's and ministers are doing nothing about the judges behind the appalling vista of her son being jailed solely for standing up for his beliefs.

They must be terrified about her popping up out of the grey with her family and a camera in tow at any public event they are advertised to attend at, filling the media pages with more of her family's alternative lifestyle.