Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584138#Comment_122584138

including a teacher, expressed support for his view, and said they wouldn’t say it at home in case of some intolerant nutter

Is Burke and his ilk not the intolerant nutters, no?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584143#Comment_122584143

Of course they are, why would you need an answer to that question?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584138#Comment_122584138

"… all, including a teacher, expressed support for his view, and said they wouldn't say it at home in case of some intolerant nutter jumping down their throat and telling them what they should think".

The irony.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584157#Comment_122584157

Because the wing nut teacher you met in the pub obviously hasn't much self awareness.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584177#Comment_122584177

Perhaps, but she was entitled to her opinion, calling her a wing nut for what she said would have been rude, intolerant, and made the person who said it look like an idiot.

So no one did.

sydthebeat

Betting intolerant of sometimes intolerant views is not a bad thing.

Intolerance should be challenged at every stage

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584185#Comment_122584185

Of course she entitled to her opinion, she also has to realise people have a right to challenge her opinion.

That said if I met some loon in pub that basically said I won't air my bigotry in case people are intolerant.

I'd just smile, make my excuses and stop to talking to her.

There is no way you are getting through to that level of dangerously stupid.

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584138#Comment_122584138

But that female boxer stuff is exactly the sort of outstanding misinformation that the Burke’s thrive on. She was born a female and is still a female. Suddenly everyone was an expert on XY and XX.
oddly the sort of people claiming she was a man are the same people who would also say couldn’t change her gender.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584138#Comment_122584138

some just think it’s gone too far. 

Could you set out in precise terms what you mean by “it” in this context ?

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584456#Comment_122584456

Some stuff seen on Facebook memes where I suspect a lot of people get their news these days.

iamwhoiam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583849#Comment_122583849

Well here is one born long long before 1990 who absolutely would not agree with him, not about his stance on transgenderism and not about his contempt of court. not about his behaviour . I chat to my siblings, my friends, my neighbours and all born before 1990 ( many before 1960 ) and not one agrees with his stance on any of the points above .Please do not speak for me .

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122582559#Comment_122582559

To be fair to them, they're all good singers. So that vocal training probably helps with the shouting.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584371#Comment_122584371

There is the issue of athletic ability, strength and fairness in sport etc. which is yet to be decided

Other than that I've no issue with how people identify. The Burke's are neanderthals with their views imo

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584584#Comment_122584584

I agree most sporting bodies need to come up with rules lots haven’t dealt with it yet but that Algerian boxer was vilified by people who hadn’t a clue vwhat they were talking about. They got caught up in their own bigotry and found a cause that suited them.

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583849#Comment_122583849

I think that's a very broad brush you are painting with. I was born before 1990 and everyone in my work and friends groups thinks hes a bell end. However most are also under the false impression he was fired due to not using the correct pronouns.

scottser

There are Hardy Bucks getting involved now. Is there no end to this madness?

Former Hardy Bucks actor slammed after asking if Enoch Burke would have been 'arrested if he was Muslim' - Irish Mirror Online

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584632#Comment_122584632

Same here. And even the few people I would know who would be iffy on the trans issue would still think that the Burkes are crazy.

drury..

I would say he has little support more like 10 than 90

Psychedelic Hedgehog

Born in the 1970's here, think he's a plank and so do my immediate family/friends.

Deebles McBeebles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584672#Comment_122584672

That screams "I want attention".

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584672#Comment_122584672

What has anyone's religion got to do with being in contempt of court?

If anything the courts have bent over backwards for the absolute Cretin.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583958#Comment_122583958

I'm sorry that you didn't see the gentle sarcasm in my comment, ala the mention of giving him his P45, for the school to publicly cut all ties between him and it after the final court hearing. I'm happy that we are of one mind on the charade the Burkes have been running before us all.

scottser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584725#Comment_122584725

It screams 'gobshite', to be fair.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122578155#Comment_122578155

We live in Ireland which is still a deeply Christian country.

rubbish. It's not the 1950s any more thankfully.

Even now, i know families who dont believe in religion at all, feel that they forced to make their childen christian, in order to grt their child a school place.

Unless it's a Church of Ireland or other minority religion school, such discrimination is illegal, so more fool them. (and my kids went to the local CoI primary - no baptism cert or anything else requested - most kids there are not CoI and if it was only CoI kids in there it would have shut down many years ago)

There's still a lot wrong with our education system but to go on and say that the whole country is still "deeply christian" is complete nonsense

Whether a religion "believes in something" or not is completely irrelevant. All that matters here is the law of the land. Enoch has the right to believe what he wants but he does not have the right to ignore or break the law.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122577924#Comment_122577924

just in case this isn't just another drive-by, take who for millions and on what grounds exactly?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122578243#Comment_122578243

This is true.

The vast majority of teachers affected by this in "deeply christian" 🙄 Ireland today are agnostics / atheists forced to teach the Roman Catholic religion as fact during the school day despite not believing a word of it.

Raichų

I have to say I grow rather tired of the religious angle that’s constantly being brought into this conversation.

Religion is irrelevant here. Burke is not behaving this way due to religious beliefs he is doing so due to intolerance towards those he believes are wrong. My folks are very religious people, mass every Sunday and that sort of thing, but I’ve never heard either of them speak ill of someone who identifies as LGBT.

if anyone they knew family or friend or indeed a total stranger requested to be address by a different pronoun or name than they were known by previously neither would bat an eyelid.

Besides that has the church (either CoI or the RCC) ever stated that to address a trans person by their preferred name and pronouns a sin or against the churches rules?

This is the part of his argument that’s a complete fallacy, he is claiming he “cannot” address someone by opposite pronouns but why. That’s something he cannot explain other than shouting MY BELIEFS THOUGH. Having beliefs and having respect for others beliefs are not mutually exclusive and one doesn’t cancel out the other.

So in summary, are the burkes precluded from accepting other people’s choices and lifestyles due to their religion? No.

The Burkes use religion as a convenient excuse to hand wave accusations of intolerance and absolve themselves of material blame. “no I wouldn’t be a homophobe now, it’s just my religion says I can’t respect gay people” is a cop out. Someone can highlight any text in the bible or otherwise that makes any direct, indirect or otherwise implies that to be a “good Christian” you must turn your back on those who are gay, transgender or otherwise.

Did Jesus not teach us that God loves all his people and we should do the same? I don’t recall learning about the catholic religion and at any stage a priest or otherwise telling us to turn our backs on those different from us and in fact my recollection states that if someone you know is behaving in a “sinful” fashion a good Christian or catholic will guide them to the right path.

Religion is not the reason for his behaviour not for one second, no, no. This is because Enoch Burke, Sean Burke, Martina Burke and etc are racist, homophobic bigots who deserve nothing more than to be shunned entirely and possibly placed on a desert island somewhere with little more to sustain than a bible, water and some sticks to catch food.

If God is so great I am sure he will help them out in their predicament but at least the rest of us will have some sort of peace.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583849#Comment_122583849

I was born long before 1990 and don't know anyone who doesn't think he's a bigoted little shít.

What a bizarre and ageist post.

You'd swear we hadn't had two referendums in the last few years where even among over 65s a large proportion voted for changes many commentators said they'd overwhelmingly oppose. (actually the first one was nine years ago now.. yikes… so those over-65s would be over-74s now)

Quin_Dub

And in a week where we have a report detailing thousands of incidents of sexual abuse by hundreds of clergy members in schools across the country I think it's fair to say that the presence of a few LGBTQ+ pupils in the class-room is the least of peoples worries right now.

Religion has absolutely ZERO place in our educational system.

Ezeoul

I think many people are uneasy about the issue because they think by agreeing to a request to use someone's preferred name or pronouns, they are confirming that they fully accept / believe the non-binary/trans person's gender identity.

When that is not what they are being asked to do at all. They are being asked to use a preferred name and pronouns. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.

I really don't get what the big deal is, or why anyone would refuse to do so, or feel "uneasy" about it.

In the wise words of Miriam Margolyes (age 83):

"If you can make someone happy, and give them a sense of themselves, then do it!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXMfSnk06L0

(PS - I was born at the very end of the sixties!).