Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587891#Comment_122587891

big agree with this. Myself and the Mrs are presently quite unsure about the near future as our youngest is in Senior infants at the moment and communions are I think in first class?

Anyway, he’s not been baptised (his older sibling was because at the time we felt we “had to”) and did do his communion but we think for the younger one we will just make a day of the communion day ourselves. What gives us real problems I guess is what will happen while the other kids are doing their prep in class time and he isn’t?

I suspect he will be rather upset and feel left out but it’s such a bullshit reason to make your communion or partake in any sacrament. We’ve stepped inside the church on a handful of occasions and the majority of which were for the communion….

Not looking forward to early/mid 2026 anyway.

Bobeagleburger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588021#Comment_122588021

The number of kids not partaking in communion is growing all the time.

In our local school it was roughly 5% of kids five years years ago. Now it's roughly 25%.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122587487#Comment_122587487

Jailtime with Enoch at the blackboard scowling down at me.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588015#Comment_122588015

You keep banging this drum that the child "did not request" to be addressed with they/them pronouns.

It has already been clarified, that in the course of the meeting they had with WHS that they did confirm - when asked if they would like to be referred to by gender neutral pronouns - they agreed that "they/them" would be used going forward.

So again, while technically they did not request it, they did agree to it.

It is confirmed in this article you linked to yourself in a previous post:

Parent of transgender student in Enoch Burke row expresses safety concern for their family | Irish Independent

I'd post the relevant extract from the text, but its behind a paywall.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588015#Comment_122588015

But WH do have a policy related to trans students, though it was formally placed on their Website in 2023

There is no single policy related to trans students, unless you want to link to it?

All schools have an anti bullying policy which includes references to transphobia amongst many other things.

Official guidance was given on this from the department in 2013.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122586623#Comment_122586623

They were remarkably normal and pleasant, completely at odds with the caricature I had seen in the media.

Sure. Have you seen any of the many videos they themselves have taken and they themselves published on social media? Screaming, shouting the most vile abuse at people just doing their jobs.

Caricature my árse.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588021#Comment_122588021

The church want communions and confirmations out of the schools too.

It has happened and continues to happen.

There will be plenty kids not making their communion so she won't be on her own.

Raichų

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588068#Comment_122588068

allow me!

In an affidavit last August, the school’s chairman, John Rogers, said a meeting took place the previous May between the student, their parents and Ms McShane at which the then principal was advised the student wanted to transition and to be addressed by a new name and pronoun going forward. Mr Rogers based his account on a report compiled by Ms McShane.

However, the parent said in the email to Mr Milling they wished to be clear that the purpose of the meeting was to “re-engage [their child] back to school”. The parent also said that while the child had requested to go by a new name, “the they/them pronoun came from Wilson’s” and there was no principal or deputy principal at the meeting.

Mr Burke has pounced on the discrepancies, claiming the orders secured against him were obtained on the basis of “false statements”.

In a responding affidavit, the teacher said he believed the parent of the pupil who attended the meeting had no desire to see the school litigate or take disciplinary action against him.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588164#Comment_122588164

Every so often a bishop or parish priest makes noises about "moving the sacraments into the parish" i.e. your kids won't get it automatically in school, you'll have to make the effort to take them to religious instruction classes outside of school, bring them to church regularly, etc. and the Bouncy Castle Catholics™️ are up in arms about it on Liveline.

Then the church backs down because they realise that without the Bouncy Castle Catholics™️, who just won't bother with it if they have to make any effort at all, there will be shag-all left and the RCC won't be able to claim to represent the majority of parents/kids any more, and their continued control of 89% of primary schools will be exposed as the complete farce it actually is

salmocab

this is way off topic but my son did his communion last year and the amount of time they put into practicing for the ceremony was obscene. Everything just took a back seat for a couple of months it was just a waste.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588219#Comment_122588219

Our local school have removed it this year to after school. The parents have to engage directly with the parish office now.

The numbers attending are quite solid.

I imagine this will dwindle when other schools adopt the same approach.

The problem is, the church are not getting mass goers out of it, no mass goers no donations.

And to be fair to the priests it certainly wasn't them that encouraged the Tan and Tiaras™️ or the fact that some teachers thought they were producing West End Musicals.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588175#Comment_122588175

It's actually below that!

Frank Milling, the then Prinicpal clarified this in an affidavit to the court.

It is simply disingenous to keep repeating "the student never requested it" simply because the school asked about pronouns first.

But it gives the impression the school was forcing gender neutral pronouns on the student, which suits some people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588068#Comment_122588068

It is more than a technically, one is an answer, the other a request. There is a fundamental difference between the two.

There’s a sentence I never thought I’d have to write.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588083#Comment_122588083

Did you read the policies in their website? It literally refers to “trans”.

Now you are back tracking, because you know it is there.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588290#Comment_122588290

All anti-bullying policies have reference to transphobia.

Like I stated this is the official stance from the department published 11 years ago.

You keep inferring they have a specific policy dedicated to "trans" published on their website.

Now you are back tracking, because you know it is there.

If they do, by all means link to it.

In your own time.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588283#Comment_122588283

Sure, Jan.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588310#Comment_122588310

I’m actually annoyed with myself for engaging with you.

You have just misquoted me again, go back and look at the initial post you quoted, about the genesis of the issue, you will see I said “Burkes failure to respect the schools policy”, WH literally have a policy on their site which refers to trans people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588340#Comment_122588340

Jan?

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588175#Comment_122588175

Most of those in the debate here whom appear to agree with and believe Enoch Burke's side of the story, when mentioning the parents and the student concerned [in reference to alleged parental opposition to the student and the use of identifying pronouns] only mention one parent. I am left wondering why that is so, as if the other parent has no interest in the matter.

Why is the singular word PARENT used alongside the words THEY and THEIR CHILD used to describe what was said at the school/parents/student meeting to discuss how they all resolve what the student wanted as a descriptive pronoun at personal 1st person terms?

Would it be because there is a chance that introducing that other parent into the Burke version of the story would reveal that parent agreed to and assented to the use of pronouns when addressing the student and blow a hole in the Burke narrative?

Copied from post above included in mine: However, the parent said in the email to Mr Milling they wished to be clear that the purpose of the meeting was to “re-engage [their child] back to school”. 

The parent also said that while the child had requested to go by a new name, “the they/them pronoun came from Wilson’s”

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588348#Comment_122588348

Lol.

You are annoyed with yourself because you have been asked to provide proof of your claims.

No proof exits so you are now throwing an Enoch inspired strop in a hilarious attempt to save face.

I'll ask once more and for the last time, please link to this policy on "trans people".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588375#Comment_122588375

You are an idiot, their online policies literally refers to trans people.

drury..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588375#Comment_122588375

You're a gas man posting about proof and claims considering the hyperbole u do be posting

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588358#Comment_122588358

Only one parent attended the meeting at WHS with the student.

We don't know what their other parent's reason for not attending was, though some will jump to the conclusion that it has to mean they opposed the student's request.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588456#Comment_122588456

There does appear to be a discrepancy between the Burke version of the school/parental meeting and correspondence and the school version. One thing which I assume where it came to that meeting is that EB was not present nor represented there as it was long before he decided to differ with the school principal and board over the issue and go public [as it were] with it.

If that is the case, then EB and the Burke family narrative may be based purely on supposition, and on how the WHS decision conflicted with his family evangelistic upbringing within the family home education system.

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588273#Comment_122588273

gives the impression the school was forcing gender neutral pronouns on the student

Tbh, this was my take as well.

Well, not 'forcing', but I'd say they knew a certain staff member would have problems with referring to a 'he' as 'she' or vice versa, so it was an attempt to remove the problem of gender altogether, didn't work out too well though

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588510#Comment_122588510

All cleared up in the aforementioned affidavits.

Mr Milling, who became principal last November, said: “The student’s parent’s email could be interpreted as a suggestion the change in pronouns was a decision by the school and the school alone.

“However, I understand from my enquiries of the two members of staff who were at the meeting that is not the case.

“The student was clear that they did not want to use their previous gender-specific pronouns and all, including the parent, agreed that ‘they/them’ would be used going forward in the school.

”He also said he understood from his predecessor that the word “parents” in her report as opposed to “parent” was a generalisation on her part.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588522#Comment_122588522

Only this wasn't the first such request made to staff on behalf of a student at WHS.

A similar request was made for another student prior to this in December 2021, to which EB raised no objections.

No one knows why he did not object to the request made on behalf of that student, but did in this case.

knucklehead6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588885#Comment_122588885

Probably becaue, as mentioned earlier on, the Burkes were neck deep in Covid at the time.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588967#Comment_122588967

I'd imagine Mammy didn't notice and provide direction.

knucklehead6

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122588984#Comment_122588984

You can imagine the beating Enoch got when he came home and told mammy that there are TWO tg kids in the school and he had missed the first one!!