Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

Maxface

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122599391#Comment_122599391

I don't know what right a church thinks it has to support any belief about children, or to attempt to force that belief upon that child. One of many reasons where religion should be far removed from education.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122599391#Comment_122599391

Ah, the old "reality" argument again. Suggest you read up on The Blind Men and the Elephant parable because the idea that everyone perceives "reality" in the exact same way you do is somewhat dated.

Similarly, perhaps it was the student who didn't "cave in to the current zeitgeist" by determining who they were according to their beliefs and experiences as opposed to bowing down to an incresaingly outdated traditional expectation.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122599391#Comment_122599391

We should praise a persons perception of reality who believes in Biblical infallibility?

You sure Bro? 😆

Either way he wasn't fired for his beliefs, he was fired for being an aggressive bullying scum bag.

cmyk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122599391#Comment_122599391

Because harking back to the good ol' days of school culture was better? Take a look at some of the news headlines this past week for evidence of how well religion integrates with education.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122599391#Comment_122599391

Ah, you must have been in school before The Gender Recognition Act 2015 became law in this country. Also the various Equal Status Acts, under which gender is protected.

Transgender and non-binary people exist. They are real.

That is the reality. Time to face it.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122599391#Comment_122599391

Umm. one thing: WHS, while in name a C of I school, is a school educating people of MORE THAN ONE belief, not solely C of I religious belief. It has a board of management in overall control of the school and the rules by which the school operates. The rules apply to both it's staff and pupils of ALL beliefs to enable the school to operate successfully. The rules are clearly NOT SET IN STONE and are liable to change as humans view on reality does; call it recognition of reality or an education in life.

That is confirmed by the fact that EB is of a different branch of the Christian community to the C of I yet was employed by WHS as a member of staff to educate the pupils there on two topics, neither of which is related to either C of I or Evangelist Christianity.

EB's refusal to accept that WHS board and management can and could change it's rules and operations outside those which he uses [present tense] for his non C of I belief life is at the core of his opposition to the changes at the school. He has done nothing but try to impose his -ism on the school board, the staff and the pupils there instead of furthering his education in life as it were…

Your praise for EB in his immovable position is, according to your post, based around the school being a C of I school with a C of I ethos solely and it operating outside of that ethos. An open-eyed look by you at its pupils and staff would confirm it ain't so in fact. The "he should move on with life" might also apply to you.

AnnieinDundrum

The ´back in the day’ line doesn’t really work does it?

Pupils weren’t protected and they weren’t listened to.

Why on earth would anyone see that as a standard for anything is beyond me

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122599391#Comment_122599391

’If you don’t give me a piece of paper telling me I have to do something, then I won’t do it and you can’t make me’. Sounds like a teacher in an Irish school alright. Rules and regulations but no humanity.
Trans people have been around since the year dot. Refusing to acknowledge them or making laws to criminalise them, as some countries are doing, isn’t going to make them disappear or no longer exist.
Burke lives on his own planet of black and white, right and wrong, the rest of us are in the real world.

tayto lover

Anyone know why/how the Burke family began with the religious stuff? It seems very much over the top for an entire family to go this way. Is there a name on their religion?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600414#Comment_122600414

The kids came after, I would expect; so its just the two to begin with. They will have indoctrinated the kids.

They're evangelical, and probably not in communion with anyone else at all.

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600414#Comment_122600414

Burke family background: How Enoch and his family's 'extreme' …

WEB28 Jan 2023 · Parents of 10 children, Martina and Sean converted to evangelicalism decades ago which has lead to unease among their fellow Christians. This is from the Irish Indo but you might find the article paywall-blocked.

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=41fc0f353c3356deJmltdHM9MTcyNTkyNjQwMCZpZ3VpZD0wNGY1NWYyZi1lNDBjLTYxMDgtMTM3OS00YjlmZTU0MTYwOWUmaW5zaWQ9NTE5NQ&ptn=3&ver=2&hsh=3&fclid=04f55f2f-e40c-6108-1379-4b9fe541609e&psq=Was+the+Burke+family+always+Evangelistic+Christians&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvQnVya2VfZmFtaWx5XyhDYXN0bGViYXIp&ntb=1

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600433#Comment_122600433

Thank you for that.

I've just googled '' evangelism '' It seems to be based on Three E's, - Engagement, Empathy and Explanation. I don;t believe that Enoch was showing much Empathy in his manner of dealings with his superior on pupil.

https://www.modernreformation.org/resources/articles/the-mod-the-three-es-of-evangelism?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw3P-2BhAEEiwA3yPhwC5MjRQApMJ5Ylo5xk28szNl2fuwCyXoux-2sJqDqJvCIwiMdCRBNRoC2EMQAvD_BwE

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600414#Comment_122600414

AFAIK, a Protestant denomination, like the evangelism in the USA.

Hamsterchops

I wonder does Enoch believe in Transubstantiation 🤔

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600414#Comment_122600414

They refer to themselves simply as Christians.

I read somewhere in the media a long time ago at the start of all this, (don't ask me where, I can't remember) that Mammy may not be from Ireland originally, it was suggested she was American born, but I have no way of confirming if that is true or not. It could be a complete fabrication and she is as Irish as Guinness.

But I have wondered about their extended family myself, as they seem to have literally no other family connections. The parents seem to have no siblings / uncles / aunts. If they do, like everything connected to the Burkes, it is kept locked down and very private (which, in fairness, they are entitled to that privacy).

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600646#Comment_122600646

If they have family but converted to whatever level of Christianity they are then I’d say it’s reasonable enough to assume other members of the extended family don’t share the their views and certainly don’t want to get too close to any fallout.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600749#Comment_122600749

Couldn't really blame them, could you!

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600473#Comment_122600473

Well we’ve certainly seen the “engagement” piece time and time again - I’ve seen no “empathy” and their “explanations” rarely make any sense- so I think we can safely say that their version of evangelism is a concentrated form of aggressive “engagement” - and that’s about it

hoodie6029

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600809#Comment_122600809

Evangelicals were peaceful and thoughtful in their religion and didn’t force their beliefs on anyone or try to mould society to suit them.
They were taken over by extremists in the 70’s as they were a huge base of voters to back Nixon and later Reagan and Bush. The decent people left the religion and it became, not far off a cult which has led to Christian Nationalism and MAGA, QAnon (quasi-religions IMO) proliferating today.

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600791#Comment_122600791

Not a bit, even if they did share some views they wouldn’t want their lives tainted by that carry on

aloyisious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600525#Comment_122600525

Is that an ecumenical question?

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122599968#Comment_122599968

I went to a catholic school run by priests. This was in the 80's. The was a guy in my glass with a name that could be used for guys but is mainly used for girls. He asked for everyone to call him by another name on his first day. Everyone did.

Apparently they would call people by a different name back then. It just had to fit with the churches idea of gender roles.

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122601355#Comment_122601355

I went to a school that while not run by any order still had religion as a class. There was an older priest there for years and then a young priest came in and he was obviously a bit of a scholar. He told a room full of 15/16 year olds that condoms were not protection against aids. Imagine being that ridiculous and allowed near children. He also claimed that father Ted wasn’t funny but not because of the religious angle it just wasn’t a funny show and he claimed he had no objection to some elements of religion being the butt of the jokes.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600882#Comment_122600882

They are all peaceful until they get a sniff of power. Every country with a dominant religion you will find that religion are cnts. Not just the ones people always pinpoint like the Christians and Muslims but the Hindus, Buddhists and all the others we think of as benign are cnts.

suvigirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122600525#Comment_122600525

He's not Catholic

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122601442#Comment_122601442

Father-of-two Michael Cleary was peddling that line on the radio for years. The RCC objection to condoms has got nothing to do with their effectiveness or ineffectiveness, it's "Because Pope Paul VI said so".

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122599391#Comment_122599391

It's interesting how these stories talk about how students 'just change' their name and gender, as if it's the same as just changing their shoes.

When in reality, it's a deep, considered decision, generally made after years of difficulty and heartbreak.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122601355#Comment_122601355

I went to a non-denominational secondary school were probably 50% of the students were not Irish (a lot of malaysian and asian students) and nobody knew if their names sounded "right". They just called them by their names!

Hamsterchops

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122601220#Comment_122601220

More like a rhetorical question.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122601442#Comment_122601442

I remember we had a jesuit for a retreat once and he was probably the most open minded of them all. He stuck to church rules but still allowed a certain amount of leeway.

My school was run by priests. About 50% of my teachers were priests. Every lesson started with a prayer which is why I can to this day still recite the Hail Mary in French, Latin, Irish and English.

We'd have multiple retreats a year. There was one done by one of the local parish priests where he said that if we had "problems" with members of the opposite sex, our own sex or with animals we could tell him in confession.

Our sex and relationships education was a 3 hour session with a young catholic couple. They made sure to tell us that there were three people in every marriage. The man, the woman and God. There was no actual discussion about sex or relationships, just how it was very important to be spiritual and keep religion in the relationship. I remember them telling us about how they met each other at a retreat in glendalough. To be honest, they seemed sweet and very earnest but they'd definitely drunk the kool-aid.

Youth defense also had session with us.

And there were the daily religion classes. In which we were told that being gay was unnatural and therefore God hates it. Sex for pleasure was wrong. It should only be for procreation. Masturbation is wrong because it's for pleasure and should only be for procreation (I distinctly remember the phrase "Thou shalt not spill the seed of life"). Condoms interfere with God's plan for creating life and therefore it's preventing life from being created and is akin to killing someone, but at the same time, not as bad as actually killing someone. Trans people were mentioned. the gist was it's against God's plan so it's wrong. Also, interfering with sexual organs was bad, because it prevented you from procreating.

The amount of **** we were told is ridiculous. It seemed normal in the 90's because it's all I knew. But nowadays it just seems bizarre.

It's why I'm against religious schools. By all means have religious education outside of school but in school kids should be taught facts. And there will be kids who are gay or bi or trans in school. They shouldn't be told that they're unnatural by a teacher. They shouldn't be told that they're offending god just by existing.