Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120073719#Comment_120073719

are you having a laugh? Court orders barring him from the school, spends months in prison, released & he’s there for 8:30 Thursday morning leaving at 3:45.

he is a freak at best. If you wouldn’t consider someone suspended from your workplace showing up every day as if they were supposed to be there and you didn’t think that was creepy behaviour, not to mention a court order barring them? Give your head a shake.

Wompa1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076451#Comment_120076451

His family has form. He would have found some other excuse to act the wanker.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120073748#Comment_120073748

He’s turning up to a workplace, while he is not only suspended from duty, but recently released from prison for doing so in defiance of court orders. How can anyone say he’s anything but a creep at best? Surely you don’t consider this normal or rational behaviour?

hes not some martyr he’s a clown. I wouldn’t want him in a school with my kids.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076188#Comment_120076188

Oh yeah I'm sure he and his siblings all came to their extremist religious viewpoints, which exactly match each other and those of their parents, independently. He's an intellect for the ages all right.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076241#Comment_120076241

When applied to the existence of a God, no doubt, just because many believe does not mean it is true, when applied to the usefulness of that belief in a God to some, you are equally ill informed. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews). I don’t believe in God, I do believe that some do though, and that belief is useful to them, which is at odds with the earlier poster who said religion has no use.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076486#Comment_120076486

Yip, agree with a lot of what you posted, but that does not make him a danger to children as has been suggested.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076575#Comment_120076575

for the same reasons I would call him a creep I’d be proactive in making sure his contact with any child was limited. His way of thinking alone, frankly, is dangerous to children and young people. That oppressive weird God is great carry on is cultism at best.

pjcb

how is this not trespass?

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076946#Comment_120076946

Because he has no legal grounds to be on the premises.

(Unless you meant how is this not)

Ten of Swords

Mod - Please stick to the topic of the thread, there is no need to discuss the merits of Catholicism or Protestantism in the broader sense. YOu can do that in the Christianity forum if you wish.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076188#Comment_120076188

They are one of the most intelligent families in the country, I wonder what the IQ is

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077124#Comment_120077124

IQ does not equate to common sense and if they were that good at debate and legal recourse, he wouldn't still be in there.

They also seem to have racked up an impressive list of losses against various state bodies they've taken leagal action against, not to metnion the wrongful dismissal action against his sister's solicitor.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076552#Comment_120076552

Staving off the guilt instilled by childhood brainwashing, that sort of useful? Or useful for keeping the proles in their place instead of rebelling against the injustice of their lives, sure won't their reward be in the next? Or useful for convincing people to give you vast wealth and power because you've convinced them you have the ear of the god-man?

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful. - Seneca the Younger

endacl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120074825#Comment_120074825

Perhaps from Castlebar?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077181#Comment_120077181

You know, there is a simple way of finding out if people who practise their religion find it useful, just ask someone. As I said earlier, anyone with the IQ of a doorknob understands that religion is important to some people, and is if use to them.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077124#Comment_120077124

Do you know them personally?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076503#Comment_120076503

Yes, we're all individuals!

Yes, we are all different!

Yes! We've got to work it out for ourselves!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077402#Comment_120077402

The Burke children are known for their academic success.[2][1][3] Isaac has a PhD in mathematics, and Kezia has won awards for a paper she wrote on mathematics and physics.[2] Enoch also holds two bachelor's degrees (one in theological studies, the other in history and politics) as well as a master's degree in education.[4] Josiah holds an MSc in economic history.[2] Simeon won the Mayo School's Debating Competition alongside his brother Elijah,[5] and represented the National University of Ireland, Galway (NUIG) at the final of The Irish TimesDebating Competition in 2020.[6] All of the siblings who have completed an undergraduate degree received a first-class honours.[1]

I think most would acknowledge that their level of intelligence may be higher than most. Their academic achievements certainly put them in the highest percentile with all achieving first class honours so far.

An Claidheamh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120075584#Comment_120075584

Hitchens himself was full of illusions, which he did not keep quiet

His fanboys, merely, pseudo intellectuals who fail to realise he was a right wing British ignorant nationalist and hypocritical bigot

(but had an accent, so clearly an “intellectual”)

What is quite amazing is the lengths people will go to blame “Catholics” for things

It is always “Catholic indoctrination”, “Ring wing Catholic”, “Catholic fanatics”, but Burke and his ilk are never referred to as Protestants

Internet atheists, along with most media, clearly take their views from Britain in this stance, rooted in sectarianism and xenophobia, rather than logic

An Claidheamh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076129#Comment_120076129

But that is merely because most are Catholic, and if you don’t like the religion or views it is “indoctrination”

50 years before the State, we all had Protestant schools which were most certainly involuntary, and involved actual indoctrination on the part of the Britain and its empire

You say, only Catholic in some areas, but what about those with CoI, but have no Baptist or Methodist school

Recently, we have multi-demoninational, merely because there is a market for them

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077428#Comment_120077428

And where does it state They are one of the most intelligent families in the country

I mean that's why I asked the question of the person who made the claim.

I'm aware of Irelands Fittest Family, is there a similar competition for intelligence?

From what I can see the vocal ones are quite dim.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077428#Comment_120077428

That's very impressive, shame they (at least the two we know about) are not smart.

Were they home schooled in their early years, do you know?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077453#Comment_120077453

Sorry, I ninja edited my post as you were posting.

I can’t tell if you have any third level education, but achieving first class honours is not easy, for every member of the family who has finished third level so far to achieve first class honours must put them near the top of any analysis of family achievements in academia. Is that an indication of intelligence? You would have to think so, even though it doesn’t carry the same peer reviewed acceptance as Irelands Fittest Family TV show.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077457#Comment_120077457

From reading about them, they were all home schooled, firstly by their mother, then by the older siblings helping out.

As others have said, they seem to lack common sense and awareness of others, I’m not psychologist obviously, but you have to wonder is that due to being kept out of contact with other kids during their formative school years.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077462#Comment_120077462

It's an indication of academic ability. Intelligence would be a far wider spectrum.

But like I said, the vocals ones come across quite dim.

They are certainly socially retarded, which I imagine stems from their up bringing more so than anything else.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077473#Comment_120077473

Only to you, you can’t achieve first class honours and be “dim”. Whether they are socially inept is a different matter entirely.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077473#Comment_120077473

"The measure of intelligence is the ability to change" (Einstein)

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077478#Comment_120077478

Only to you, you can’t achieve first class honours and be “dim”.

Why not? You are naively equating absolute intelligence with ones academic ability, which of course has varying factors involved to reach that level, money, discipline, structure.

Some of the most intelligent people I know and have known never had the luxury or fortune to go to college, some didn't even do their leaving.

But again the fact remains, from what I have seen of them they are pretty fúcking thick to be honest at even the most rudimentary level.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077489#Comment_120077489

Only you mentioned absolute intelligence, you asked an earlier poster to support his/her assertion that they must be one of the most intelligent families in Ireland, certainly their academic achievements lend weight to that claim.

You can be intelligent and not have a 1st class honours degree in maths or physics, economics or law, but can you achieve those first class honours without intelligence?

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077504#Comment_120077504

I already explained to you the difference between academic ability and intelligence.

And yes if the claim is they are one of most intelligent families in Ireland, than yes that would be absolute intelligence.

I see no evidence of that, quite the opposite really.

Why are you a fan of this horrible family?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120071453#Comment_120071453

Same sex marriage was an issue for a tiny minority. It still brought enough attention and votes to make it a reality. Transgenderism (which is directly related to the reason Burke was in prison...like to admit it or not) is something in which a tiny minority of people go through, but it is still broadly pasted across the headlines and causing major problems in womens sports.

Perhaps your bias is the reason you say most people don't give a shite about what is going on about Enoch Burke, but you are very wrong and the story will only gain more traction. Those who strip it down to "he disobeyed a court order and that's why he is in jail" are side stepping the reasons behind it, which Burke has on multiple occasions attested to.

At the heart of all this, is a minority trying to put words into everyones mouths. Don't try to force others to call you something you are not. A man can believe he is a woman and while I find the idea to be strange at best, I'm OK to let people believe about themselves what they want as long as I am left to believe what I believe....that the person is still a biological man and this can't be changed. When that belief is forced down someone elses throat with the penalty of jail for not conforming, then we really do have an issue.

I commend Burke for sticking to his beliefs and standing up against the nonsense he was told to abide by. Most people would have crumbled and given in at the first hurdle and grumbled away as they walked down the steps of the courthouse.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077519#Comment_120077519

This is like one of those posters who says “you must be a Garda or an Estate Agent” or whatever topic is being discussed, just because I don’t share your view.

I think what Burke did was wrong, I think he is misguided in taking the approach he is, the Disciplinary Hearing is the correct forum to dispute the allegations, I think their family’s zealous behaviour damages them, making them at this stage virtually unemployable. But I don’t share your views, and see commonalities between the way you refer to them, and the way they refer to others that don’t agree with them.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077541#Comment_120077541

Well you are on here again defending them, I mean it's hardly subtle, so the question was pertinent.

As for commonalities - oh yes you are more worried about me than an erratic violent individual who hangs around all day in a school corridor he is banned from. 😂

I detest bullies, they need to be called out for what they are. I think any reasonable person would agree with that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077616#Comment_120077616

Have I defended them?

See there you go again, how has he been violent?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077449#Comment_120077449

That is simply incorrect. The Kildare Place Society was set up in 1811 as one of the first, the first? organised educational bodies. Initially it was clearly non denominational and open to children of all faiths. It was however religious in that the bible, common to Christian faiths, was to be read in school without further interpretation.

It was the likes of Archbishop McHale who refused to allow Catholic children to go to the likes of Kildare Place schools and insisted in setting up segregated educational for Catholic children. He had rival schools set up.

But this is where we are now and whilst the student in question has a right to be called by what name as they wish, Burke also has rights not to be discriminated against due to his religious beliefs. Two competing sets of 'rights' and that's the nub of this issue.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077617#Comment_120077617

Your two questions is a classic example of defending him.

Read back through your posts, particularly where you accused me of being worst them in.

The question about violence has been answered by me personally several times and several times more by other posters, considering you are one of the more active members on this thread you already know the answer.

It's bad faith posting.

But again.

Chasing a woman around in a threatening manner to the point where people have to step in to stop you is violent behaviour.

Coupled with his violent outbursts in court and all sorts of conspiracy claims and his beyond erratic behaviour.

All traits of an extremely low grade bully.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077639#Comment_120077639

Show me where I have defended them. Pointing out that what you are posting is wrong, is not defending them.

A robust exchange of views is not violence, there is no doubt the setting was inappropriate. The allegation relating to that exchange will be dealt with at the Disciplinary Hearing, which of course is the correct forum. He was wrong to do what he did, where he did. To categorise that as violence is to do a disservice to people who suffer actual violence.

That is not defending Burke, it is disagreeing with you, there is a difference.

Using terms like “creep”, “thumping”, “chomping around” “danger to children” “dragged away”, “violent” “bully” without merit, it could well be construed as a form of online bullying by some.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077672#Comment_120077672

Show me where I have defended them

The very next line. 😂

A robust exchange of views is not violence

Using terms like “creep”, “chomping around” “danger to children” “dragged away”, “violent” “bully” without merit, it could well be construed as online bullying by some

"Some" being fans of this family.

Acosta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077535#Comment_120077535

Most people, even if they don't understand or think being non binary is a bit silly, will have enough basic respect for someone to refer to them as whatever that person desires and get on with their lives. And even most that do have a major problem on the level that Burke does(if that's possible), wouldn't fancy making themselves unemployable in their profession.

They could just call them by their name. Or in the case of Burke and the minor he's decided to use to make a point in the most public of ways, he wouldn't have to call that person anything, as he wasn't the students teacher and from what I've read, never had any contact with the person.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077535#Comment_120077535

But at the heart of this.... whether you like to admit it or not...

Burke was not jailed for "not conforming" to the request to use a trans student's preferred pronouns.

He was jailed for contempt of court as a consequence of his repeatedly breaking a High court order, ordering him to stay away from the school while on suspension.

A high court order made on him 100% as a consequence of his own behaviour in accosting the Principal at a public event.

Burke did not have to accost the Principal at a public event to make his objections known to her. There is a time and place for him to make his objections known. But he did what he did, and that's what led to his suspension, and what led him to where he is where he is today.

Silly that at this stage, that some are still trying to make his imprisonment about transgenderism and not about his behaviour, and that it still needs to be repeated, so frequently.

There is no jail penalty for misgendering or not using someone's preferred pronouns. If he had simply refused to comply with the request, he would not have ended up in a jail cell.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077124#Comment_120077124

You are confusing acquired knowledge with intelligence.

Wanderer78

the burkes come across as being seriously emotionally immature, seriously lacking in the understanding of the emotional needs of others, in particular kids, theyre clearly intellectually intelligent, but theres something seriously lacking in the emotional department, wouldnt surprise me if there is a high concertation of autism in the family....

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077722#Comment_120077722

Ridiculous attempt to once again side step the root cause. Contempt of court is the charge, not the reason, which was pretty obvious in my post.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077735#Comment_120077735

No, I'm not. They are intelligent.

I don't agree with their belief's, or their behavior, neither does most on here thankfully , but they are an incredibly intelligent group of people.

jackboy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077790#Comment_120077790

They are very religious which is highly unusual for current day Ireland. However, there are loads of countries where people like them are in the vast majority. They only stand out here because their principals are at odds with most people in the country.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077806#Comment_120077806

What is ridiculous is those still desperately grasping onto the position that Enoch Burke was jailed for refusing to use a trans student's choice of pronoun.

Even a High Court Judge has stated his case has nothing to do with transgenderism. Take it up with them.

As an aside, no one who is asked to use a particular pronoun is being asked to literally believe anything about the other person's gender. All they're being asked for is a courtesy, nothing more, nothing less.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077840#Comment_120077840

....there are links to autism and religious fundamentalism, those of us on the spectrum tend towards belief systems of strong moralism and ethics, a lot of the burke family behaviors resemble so, in particular enochs....

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077840#Comment_120077840

100%.

They are religious fanatics, with moral compasses aligned to being raised in such an environment.

Someone mentioned autism, but they are successful debaters, a task that requires robust social skills, something autistic people would struggle with.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077909#Comment_120077909

They don't display autistic behaviours though.

Social interactions are difficult for most on the spectrum

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120077939#Comment_120077939

....wanna bet!