Black mould and dampness
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I fully understand steam.
People breathing do not produce steam, etc
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First, just because everyone you know is drying clothes on a clothes horse doesn't make it a good idea (15% of adults smoke, but the mere fact that half a million people do it doesn't make it clever). At bare minimum the clothes horse should be located in a well ventilated part of the house.
Also, and just to be clear, you're willing to pay €450 for a consultation leading to paying at least several thousand euro worth of a "solution" but you're not (for example) willing to set a tumble dryer on a timer to come on in the middle of the night at a cost of maybe €1 per dry?
Or to put it another way, you could dry a load of washing every night for almost a year and a half (taking a couple of litres of water out of your home's atmosphere per day) for the cost of just the consultation. For the likely cost of the consultation plus the "solution" you could run a dryer every night for at least a decade (and probably 2 decades) while replacing the tumble dryer several times along the way. Closing the door & opening the window of the kitchen for half an hour while you're cooking is effectively free.
Put a third way, the solution likely to be recommended will likely cost a few months wages. So do you really prefer to work full time from now until mid-April just to avoid the inconvenience of setting the tumble dryer on a timer and closing 1 door and opening 1 window while you're boiling potatoes?
Finally, if you're asking for suggestions you could consider opening your mind to the possibility that the most appropriate solution to your situation may not be one you particularly like at first.
The solution is always going to be insulation + ventilation. You claim your house is well insulated, which leaves ventilation. So put an extractor fan (activated by the light switch and with a 15 minute timer) in each bathroom and in the kitchen. They cost about €40 in Screwfix last time I got one, and DIY installation is possible. That'll solve about 60% of your ventilation issue. Using the tumble dryer (vented outside or condensor) will solve another 25% (yes I'm pulling those numbers out of my @rse, but you get my point). You can probably live with whatever's left over.
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ShedHead
Brilliant explanation.
You forgot to add to the €450 Consolation (Salesman) Fee - for another few hundred € OR a few grand, for their products.
Also when I explain drying clothes in rads to families- I’m usually told that the Mother and Grandmother always did it.
I cannot understand how they charge €450 for a Report on Condensation.
I have already explained the cause of the condensation on 12-1-23@ 8.18 pm above, in relation to the 25 year old house.
It will be a generic Report with a many photos of the Condensation Mould and lots of recommendations to spend lots of money to buy their products.
What a waste of money - that could be better spent - as you have outlined above.
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You do not need to get an independent survey on your house.
It is a waste of money for your 25 year old insulated house.
Use the €450 to install an extra 200 mm of insulation in your attic.
I have already outlined how to reduce the Steam/ Moisture in your house.
Also when you get up in the morning, before leaving the bedroom- open the window and then shut the bedroom door behind you. Close the window after 1 hour or more.
Can you get Trickle vents fitted to your window frames. The outside grill of a trickle vent faces downwards. Whereas the outside grill of a wall vent faces the wind.
Each habitable room should have approximately 6,500 mm2 of permanent ventilation. So install trickle vents of this area in each room. These vents can be shut off from inside.
Your house is approximately 25 years old and you stated that there was 50 mm of Aeroboard in the cavity and that you got the cavity filled 10 years ago.
An uninsulated Cavity Constructed wall will have a U Value of approx 2.1 Watts / M2/degC/hour.
The 50 mm of Aeroboard in your house would have given a U Value of approx 0.52 W/M2/degC/hr.
Filling the Cavity in your house reduced the heat loss in the walls to an approx U Value of 0.30 W/M2/degC/hr.
That is a brilliant very low U Value.
Therefore the Insulation in the wall is Perfect. No need to add anymore insulation.
You said your ceiling insulation is approx 100 mm thick.
This will give a heat loss - U Value of approx 0.28 W/M2/degC/hr
With the above insulation and U Values - if you had sufficient Ventilation- you should not have any Surface Condensation in your house. - Provided you reduce the Steam and moisture as I outlined on this post recently.
If you have a lack of ventilation in your bedrooms - it will cause mould growth behind the bed headboard, and mould growth behind the curtains, and on the clothes and leather in the Wardrobes and this will create a stale musty Odour.
If you add another 200 mm of insulation to the ceiling it will reduce the U Value to approx 0.14 W/M2/degC/hr.
This would reduce the present heat lost through the ceiling by half.
Your house will be perfectly insulated.
If you need an explanation of heat loss calculations by U Values - let me know - and I will explain it here.
I would not install a Mechanical Heat Exchanger in my house. It will be very expensive and requires electricity and it has filters, and creates structure borne vibrations sound - and you do not need it.
Open windows and wall / trickle vents provides Free Fresh Air.
If wet clothes are dried on radiators- the water in the clothes vanishes in to thin air, and will subsequently reappear as water on windows and walls and clothing etc.
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Clint,
Lots of good stuff in that post.
A few comments
Each habitable room should have approximately 6,500 mm2 of permanent ventilation. So install trickle vents of this area in each room. These vents can be shut off from inside.
If closable then not permanent, take your pick.
Also when you get up in the morning, before leaving the bedroom- open the window and then shut the bedroom door behind you. Close the window after 1 hour or more.
By and large impractical for most folk, especially the OP
I would not install a Mechanical Heat Exchanger in my house. It will be very expensive and requires electricity and it has filters, and creates structure borne vibrations sound - and you do not need it.
Most MVHRs are c 90% efficient and the quality of the air in houses with them, when designed, installed, commissioned, installed and maintained properly is vastly superior to what passes for free air these days.
You are being a little harsh on MVHR
“I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.
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Calahonda52
Thank you for your wonderful reply and nice comment.
You have raised very good points here, and I will reply to same below.
You commented on 3 topics and I will reply to the first 2 point here.
Your comment in relation to Ventilation was as follows:-
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- A few comments
- Each habitable room should have approximately 6,500 mm2 of permanent ventilation.
- So install trickle vents of this area in each room. These vents can be shut off from inside.
If closable then not permanent, take your pick.
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I cannot pick Permanent or Closable.
The Technical Guidance Document of the Building Regulations states that the background ventilation to habitable rooms must be permanent.
The 5 purposes of the Building Regulations (BR) are as follows:- Health, Welfare and Safety of persons, Conservation of Fuel and Energy, and access for people with disabilities.
The BR should be complied with.
However, I have reservations about some of BR in relation to the 5 purposes of the BR.
I will give 1 example of this:- The BR specify that only 1 Cold Tap in the Kitchen Sink - in the dwelling house is supplied directly from the Local Authority Watermain (with potable water). There are reasons for this but I have reservations with this BR and therefore all Cold Water Taps in my house are fed from the LA Water Mains.
The BR specifies that all other Cold Taps are supplied with cold water from the open Cold Water Storage Tank - which is usually located in the Attic Void.
Having inspected many of these tanks in the Attics - some of these Storage Tanks contain the remains of Rodents and Birds, and insects, decayed or partially decomposed.
People should be warned to never drink out of any Bathroom Wash Hand Basin Taps as it poses a health risk.
All I can do in relation to this is to instruct people - only drink water from the Kitchen Sink Cold Water Tap and Never drink water from any other taps in the house.
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Now in relation to background ventilation:-
The BR require permanent background ventilation.
The Building Regulations became operational on 1 June 1992, so many houses built before this date do not have external vents.
All the window frame trickle vents I’ve seen are closable.
Most persons prefer to have a choice with closable vents.
In my house, when Bedrooms are not being used by persons in Cold Weather, I completely block the background vents as there is no moisture being generated in these rooms. I would set the radiators in these rooms to approximately 10 degC to prevent condensation, and therefore the open vent here would lead to heat loss, which would not be in compliance with the BR purpose of Conservation of Energy and Fuel.
BR are black and white with grey areas???
Therefore if a habitable bedroom is unoccupied then no moisture is produced within the room (assuming no wet clothing on the rads).
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Calahonda52
Your second comment is as follows:-
- Also when you get up in the morning, before leaving the bedroom- open the window and then shut the bedroom door behind you. Close the window after 1 hour or more.
- By and large impractical for most folk, especially the OP
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You are correct that this may be impractical for many people.
The BR requires that each habitable room must have an openable window for purge ventilation, which should be at least 1/20th of the floor area of the room.
The average human exhales 0.35 L of water each day. The amount varies with air temperature, relative humidity, and level of activity, so the range is probably 0.3 L to 0.45 L per day.
However, an average human exhales 0.35 L of water each day. Therefore, 2 Adults produce approx 0.25 L in 8 hour which is a large amount of moisture in a Bedroom, and it is best to open the purge window for rapid ventilation for at least some periods of time each day.
Also Bacteriologists and Immunologists advised persons to open windows during the Covid outbreak to help reduce the possibility of getting infected with airborne Covid.
So open purge ventilation windows for some period of time during the day to reduce the moisture and to help eliminate Surface Condensation
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Calahonda50
Replying to your third comment below:-
Most MVHRs are c 90% efficient and the quality of the air in houses with them, when designed, installed, commissioned, installed and maintained properly is vastly superior to what passes for free air these days.
You are being a little harsh on MVHR
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No I do not believe I’m being harsh.
You have a few problematic words in your above comment
- Most ???????
- 90%
- When …………..Properly.
- etc.
My house has free permanent ventilation and purge window ventilation. We have 100% perfect free air ventilation all the time, with no filters, no noise, and it uses Zero electricity.
I understand that we must heat the incoming air up a few degrees a few days as we live in Ireland.
An expert giving a lecture on MVHRs was asked a question about people changing Filters. The expert said that with these systems / there is Installation, Maintenance and Repairs. He said that most Irish people only do - Installation and Repair and added - most filters in these systems will only be charged when the system breaks down.
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My house has free permanent ventilation and purge window ventilation. We have 100% perfect free air ventilation all the time, with no filters, no noise, and it uses Zero electricity.
I understand that we must heat the incoming air up a few degrees a few days as we live in Ireland.
Hmmm, so I guess then you don't have a fridge in your house either (or dishwasher, washing machine, clothes dryer or vacuum cleaner .. the list goes on) ....
An expert giving a lecture on MVHRs was asked a question about people changing Filters. The expert said that with these systems / there is Installation, Maintenance and Repairs. He said that most Irish people only do - Installation and Repair and added - most filters in these systems will only be charged when the system breaks down.
.... or indeed a car?
After all you don't actually need these pesky modern conveniences, they are costly to buy and they all cost money to run.
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Bought one before xmas and been a real game changer.
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