Thinking of going electric

unkel

Yeah should be fine. Most of the degradation has happened already, with a bit of luck the car will still do your 10 mile trip in 10 years from now

And all what I said is based on you getting the earliest model Leaf. Sometime in late 2013, they got a new battery that is far more resistant to degradation. Get one of those and you'll be laughing, although they do tend to go for a grand or two more second hand.

mr chips

Ahead of a possible purchasing decision, I'm trying to figure out whether a 51kWh MG4 might work for us, or if we'd really need the 64kWh version. But I've a question about the likely availability of various charging points on a route we travel regularly.

This is a nearly-all-motorway trip from NI to Limerick which we normally do anywhere between 7-10 times a year, so I'm interested in chargers faster than 50kW which would let us spend the least time possible charging on a trip that needs to take no more than 5hrs30min to do 450km. AFAIK that means 150kW/350kW chargers at Ionity Citynorth, Kill, Mayfield and Portlaoise (maybe also Blanchardstown & Ballacolla if we head off the main route a little - have I left out any options along that M1-M50-M7 route, bar Tesla?). NB at present, barring any future software update it seems that in colder temps the 51kWh can only rapid charge up to about 80kW rather than the 117kW advertised, but that's still a lot better than 50kW.

ABRP indicates that the 51kWh variant could do this trip in 5 hours 4 min, with a 15 minute charge at Citynorth and 28 minutes at Junction 14. But in terms of charger availability, queuing etc, what's the likelihood that I'd be able to just pull in to Citynorth on my way south, start charging within 5-10 minutes, then continue to the likes of Kill or Mayfield and again start charging nearly straight away, every time, on any given Saturday between say 11.30am and 4pm?

If the answer is "slim to none", that'll let me know to only look at the 64kWh, which should have the range to charge just once along that route at any of Citynorth/Kill/Mayfield or even Portlaoise.

crisco10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210621#Comment_120210621

I don't really know that route well enough to advise in particular, but what I would say is that if you are doing the journey every 6 weeks or so, it might be worth just making it easier on yourself and getting the bigger battery? Public charging is far from a consistent experience, and if you can reduce your annual visits from 40 to 20 (just for this drive alone), it's tempting.

And I say this as someone who bought a small battery variant of the I5 but I couldn't find enough use (for us) for the bigger battery.

mr chips

Yes, ideally the bigger battery would be the one to get and it would take a lot of the uncertainty out of that trip or any other, but it's a question of balancing budgets as well. The more we spend on the car, the less there is to cover unexpected hikes like what has happened with mortgages, energy costs etc over the past year. Since I don't have experience of using any charging network yet, I'd like to get an idea of whether the 51kWh would work for us on these trips, because it would be more than adequate for the rest of our driving patterns. The thing is, this longest regular trip of ours is also the one with the greatest need to arrive on time every time, even in a worst-case weather scenario. I can allow up to 5 & a half hours for it, but very little more than that. In theory, people wouldn't be spending too long at a 150-350kW charger due to the price and the fact that they get their charge all the faster, but in practice getting the charge we need after a total of 45 minutes being connected still won't work if there's likely to be a queue of say 3-4 people ahead of us at both chargers.

coolbeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120157020#Comment_120157020

You didn't do your research and bought the wrong car. Don't be knocking the rest of us and our experiences just because of your poor decision. Simple really.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120212717#Comment_120212717

I haven’t had to use public chargers very often, but a few time I have been waiting around for more than an hour before I could plug in. This isn’t the case anymore since buying a Tesla. Probably not the car for you if getting the MG though. I’ve used the Tesla network a handful of times and every time I have watched others queue at ecars . I don’t miss this at all

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213083#Comment_120213083

Will that change soon though with Tesla opening up their charging network?

AndyBoBandy

I was in Ballacolla yesterday charging my Tesla with 3 other Tesla’s charging when we arrived and room for 4 more Tesla’s to arrive and plug in without queuing… at the same time 3 cars were plugged into the ESB chargers (including a PHEV on AC) with a further 2-3 cars waiting for those cars to finish…. The cars that were plugged in when we arrived were all still plugged in as we left 20 minutes later (with enough charge to get home), and the same cars were still waiting with 1-2 more arriving!!. 2 Tesla’s arrived just after us and were there for less than 10 minutes and the 3 that were there when we pulled in all left before we did.. I took on 31kWh in about 20 minutes giving me an average charging speed of 93kW over the session (started at 130kW).

Id be pretty pissed off if I was in one of the other cars queuing up to charge and seeing all that take place!! I think there were about 7 Tesla’s come and go in the time we were there…

I can only imagine there were similar scenes in Cashel, Portlaois & Mayfield… (Kill North Ionity was full as we passed)

Drove over 800km on Sunday & Monday and noticed loads and loads more EV’s than I’d ever seen on a drive like that before…. Yet charger installations remains at a snails pace!!

if anyone was ever on the fence about getting a Tesla, or just stubbornly refused to ever consider one, they’d be absolutely mad not to be looking at one now with the current pricing and the supercharger network… (which I hope is never opened up here as it would become a shitshow).

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213168#Comment_120213168

I don't see it happening here any time soon. With the state of the rest of the network, Tesla chargers would be swamped and that would be the loss of a major selling point.

mr chips

Cheers, AndyBB - I had hoped that the advent of superfast/ultra-rapid/whatever they're called chargers giving speeds above 100kW might at least have helped with throughput (akin to how you describe things were going at the Tesla chargers), but it would appear not. For a trip with just over 4 hours 30 of actual driving time, there's no way I could build in an extra two hours of waiting time on top of the potential 45 minutes of charging time. So if that's the way charging is going to be for the foreseeable future, then our choice is either to get a 51kWh with a smaller annual mileage allowance (and smaller monthly payments) and take the ICE on those longest trip, or pay more to get the 64kWh. Unfortunately, any sort of Tesla would still be outside the budget, even with the recent reduction in prices.

fits

It’s a frequent enough journey for you. I’d say get the bigger battery car. The charging network will get there eventually but it is not great at present.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213392#Comment_120213392

The network is fine if you have a Tesla. Just sayin'

Late 2019 base Tesla Model 3 (still under full warranty until sometime nearer the end of the year) can now be had for roughly the same price as a new long range MG4. The motorway range is likely better in the Tesla because of a more efficient drivetrain and vastly better aerodynamics.

mr chips

Yup, a Tesla would be nice but is sadly out of reach for us - the only reason we're looking at the MG4 is thanks to a workplace leasing/salary sacrifice scheme, which brings the monthly payments down significantly - however this is only available for brand new cars (and last week's UK interest rate rise may end up putting the brakes on it for us in any case, at least for now). Plus of course the MG4 whose list price is close to the cost of a 3-4 year old Tesla will come with a 7 year warranty.

Old diesel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213062#Comment_120213062

The problem is that for someone who isn't a hard core EV fan.

A bad first EV experience dictates their perception of the technology.

Whether that's a technical fault with the car, range not being what they thought or finding infrastructure a problem.

I was into EVs for years before owning one so a bad experience with my first EV wouldn't have turned me off them.

But normal drivers don't usually have a bigger picture understanding of EV tech.

So they judge EV based purely on their own experience.

You might argue that people have bad experiences with petrol and diesel too. But people have been driving those a long time.

So if you get a bad diesel you blame that model of car - not diesels in general.

Because you had good diesels before that did 200,000 miles or your uncle or neighbour did.

That range of experience is not there yet with EVs in order for normal drivers to differentiate between a Nissan Leaf 40 not being suitable and the wider EV technology which can do better then a Leaf 40.

I suspect the issue is that the poster was judging the cars suitability on say a WLTP figure.

Or WLTP minus a certain amount of range drop - say 10 percent.

However the range drop in winter was unexpected by them.

And they are unaware that in winter other EVs can better the Leafs *summer* range.

Also most non EV people would assume a Leaf is well developed and not realise that Leaf has fallen well behind newer EVs.

coolbeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120223082#Comment_120223082

That's all fine and I don't disagree with anything there. Thing is though, I'm not an EV fan, I just did my research as I'd imagine anyone would on a forty or fifty grand purchase. In my world, when you're spending that kind of money, you assume nothing and research, research again and then research some more. As someone wiser than me once said; assumptions are the mother of all fcuk ups. That combined with that poster's flippant comment dissing everyone's experience resulted in my response.

unkel

@Old diesel - that's a great post. And only too true now EVs are getting mainstream and most new buyers aren't EV enthusiasts at all and know very little about them. I've already seen it from my own experience talking to new owners recently.

Casati

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213769#Comment_120213769

I have heard a lot of posters say the network is great if you have a Tesla, however Ive just looked at Tesla's network and unless Im missing something its seems like absolutely massive parts of the country are without any chargers? e.g. Nothing north of Athlone across the whole country bar one charger in Dundalk, nothing south east of Ballacolla. Dublin doesn't look well served at all either - just one charging station at the showroom in Sandyford which I'd imagine is busy charging customer cars all day- I'd expected either something within the M50 at least?. Two of the stations are in hotels too which seems like a really strange place for superchargers. Absolutely better than nothing but if you were tied to only the Tesla network you'd be missing a lot of the country

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120225239#Comment_120225239

You're right, the network isn't super duper just yet here in Ireland but someone's just posted there's one coming to Cavan soon. And more on the way. And remember that all Teslas have extremely good aerodynamics so pretty much all of them have a 300km motorway range or more. There wouldn't be too many common journeys in Ireland that can't be done in a Tesla either by not charging at all, or charging at a supercharger. And with destination charging of course. But yes, there should be one on any main intercity motorway really and more in / around Dublin.

mfceiling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120225239#Comment_120225239

Thing is, driving a Tesla and you're not tied to Tesla only chargers. You can use any charging provider. However if you don't have a Tesla then you can't use the SuC. 16 chargers on the M1. 6 on the M7. 8 on the M8. Plus another group at Athenry, Johnstown and a couple in Tralee. Reliable, fast and no messing with Apps, RFID readers or various different cards. Plug in, walk away.

AndyBoBandy

Yeah, even in a Tesla the network is a pain in the ass but only when you are going outside the coverage of the Supercharger, anywhere within SuC coverage and it’s worth it’s weight in gold….

Bank holiday weekend went down to West Cork and did it all pretty much by Supercharger with no queuing..

and more will be coming, have no doubt about that…. They just take time (because Ireland and grid connections and planning is a ball ache), but this time 18 months ago we only had 3 sites on the island… now we’ve 9 sites!

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120225867#Comment_120225867

I think that’s a slightly blinkered view. There are plenty of trips where destination charging isn’t possible and en route charging is a must. And there are plenty of trips in Ireland which absolutely are not possible with the SuC network. Tesla SuC is lightyears ahead of eCars but it’s misleading to tell people that they can survive with no public charging or Tesla-only charging - it’s true for some people but not for plenty of others.

Abel Magwitch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120226602#Comment_120226602

I got slated for saying this before. A perfect example is Kerry. Look at the amount of Irish tourism that place does. The SuC is in Tralee. I imagine less than 10% of tourists to Kerry go near Tralee. It’s all about the ring of Kerry, Sneem has destination charging which isn’t suitable for people otg. It just doesn’t matter if you have to do a 40 min round trip from Killarney to Tralee to get a charger when you can queue without driving. Granted both Tesla and other charging networks should be much better but to say it is a selling point in Ireland sounds a bit disingenuous to me anyway. And the argument saying more are coming is moot because more are coming of all chargers. But if so many Teslas are about to be sold like some ppl here say then they need to be doing 2 or 3x the installs (on a relative basis) to keep it the supposed selling point some people like to say it is

The UK is a different story. It definitely is a selling point there

unkel

@markpb - "I think that’s a slightly blinkered view. There are plenty of trips where destination charging isn’t possible and en route charging is a must."

Where do I say that's not the case? What is blinkered in my view? I'm just stating facts. And just to make myself absolutely clear - obviously if you are going somewhere beyond the range of the car and you have no destination charging, you will need at least 3 charges on your return trip. It is very possible that not all 3 of these can be done on Tesla superchargers in Ireland at the moment.

MightyMunster

In 3 years I've used ecars once (Castlebar), Ionity Cashel twice (before Mahon Point opened) and Ionity Kill once when had an emergency trip. Besides that I've only used supercharging or home charging. NW and SE could do with some and would cover pretty much all possible trips for me.

MightyMunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120226883#Comment_120226883

Tralee is on the way to Dingle, that's a pretty popular Kerry location. It's also a 14min detour on the way to Killarney from Dublin. Well worth it for a quick charge vs risking a 1hr queue at an alternative SPOF charger. Ideally you wouldn't have to detour but would prefer the guaranteed charge vs the risk of no charge.

unkel

Same here @MightyMunster. In 3 years of owning Teslas, I tried using Ionity once, just to test it. And it was broken. I used eCars a few times on Galway return trips, worked fine and was fast, I think I got 130kW (Galway plaza) - got very lucky as it is just a single car charger 😮 there are a few other slow chargers (50kW) over there, but you wouldn't want to be in a hurry. But that ESB charge would now no longer be necessary because of the Athenry Tesla supercharger. The rest all Tesla supercharging.

And I used plenty of public fast charging when I had my Ioniq 28kWh for the 3 years before owning the Teslas. But that was another era, the one of the innovators. All charging was free but there were only a bit more than 1000 EV owners in Ireland so we all got plenty of free charging with no waiting. And we were all part of a bit of a community. Those were the days 😁 The days when people looked at you like you had 7 heads when they found out you had an electric car. Then went on to tell you they were expensive to buy 😂, the depreciation on them was bad 😂😂, you needed to replace the battery every 2-3 years costing €10k 😂😂😂 and you could get electrocuted if you drove it on a rainy day 😂😂😂😂

allinthehead

Just to update this thread and get it back on track, I got the delivery date yesterday for my M3, picking it up Saturday 18th March at 12:30 in Baldonnell. 😁

Planning to charge at Ionity Kill first then on to a supercharger at Ballacolla. Do I need anything for the Ionity charger or can I just pay with a debit card? I assume it wouldn't be wise to try to get to Ballacolla without charging?

budhabob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227561#Comment_120227561

Ah the practicalities. I'm starting to read up as well on what's needed.

I've signed up for ecars and got a card, I installed Ionity a while back but need to figure out how to use it.

I collect our MY on the 14th of March and have a Galway trip on the 16th - good first test

AndyBoBandy

For Ionity I use Chargepoint app & the rfid card they send you.

I’d be a very infrequent user of Ionity though having only used them 4 times (twice in Lithuania & twice in Ireland), and the ChargePoint card worked every time. (Though the last time in Ionity Kill the unit free vended and I was never charged).

other than that get eCars & EasyGo and that should cover most others. Then get PlugShare app to scope out chargers (and how to access them/apps/prices) for any destinations you’ll be visiting, and just download any new apps you’d need on an ad hoc basis… Applegreen probably worth having also as they are becoming big players in EV charging… though they also allow tap to pay on their chargers (as do a lot of the newer EasyGo fast chargers).

A Better Route Planner (ABRP) is also handy to have for planning out longer trips, but in fairness I’d hardly ever use it as if your going anywhere close to the SuC network, you really don’t have to worry… just always make sure to include your return journey when navigating anywhere so it knows you’ll need additional charge to get back to the Supercharger you’ll use on the outbound leg..

Casati

Sorry but is the one in Tralee intended for hotel guests? I heard about it in the Kerryman and the tone of the article was that it was for guests rather than the great unwashed. Seems like a place that you are likely to find guest cars left plugged all day even if you try to charge there.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227709#Comment_120227709

Any Tesla Supercharger is open to any Tesla car, regardless of its location.

Most Superchargers in Europe are in hotel car parks.

if a hotel also hosts a Tesla Destination Charger (slow AC charger), then they’d be most likely reserved for hotel/restaurant customers. Some of the Tesla Destination Chargers are Tesla only, and some of them are for any Type 2 EV/PHEV. Though the destination chargers have been taking a battering over the years and are mostly broken/replaced by paid charging.. (the Tesla Destination chargers were free vend)

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227604#Comment_120227604

Yes it's only now that I have the date I've started thinking about the ins and outs. I'll be an infrequent user of any public chargers hopefully but don't want the faff and need to get my head around all the different options.

AndyBoBandy

Just make sure you all have your charger installations sorted sooner rather than later (if first time EV drivers).

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227707#Comment_120227707

Thanks for that I'll check them out. Good advice about including the return leg too, I hadn't considered that.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227719#Comment_120227719

Ya that's in hand, my sister is picking up her MG ZS on Thursday so I have to install her Zappi today. If I've time I'll get mine in tomorrow.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227723#Comment_120227723

Yeah, if you navigate to a destination in a Tesla that requires a charge along the way, it will always aim to get you to that destination at around 20% charge.. (The car is trying to get you there as fast as possible). So if your stopped at a Supercharger and it’s saying 10 minutes to continue on your trip, be wary that it’ll get you there at 20% (probably assuming that you’ll have a charging option at that destination).

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120227736#Comment_120227736

Great to know thanks.

allinthehead

Just to update this thread.

I picked up the Model 3 on Patrick's day. From ordering to collection I found the whole process very straightforward, 8 weeks from order to collection and all done from mobile phone and laptop.

Car was flawless on collection and I had a very enjoyable long weekend to get used to it.

We had our first trip to Crumlin hospital yesterday and I have to say it was effortless. We stopped in Ballacolla on the way up and the way back and the car was ready to go before we were. About 15 mins charging each way and even with that we arrived home with 30% battery left, so I actually ended up overcharging in that time.

Just wanted to thank @Alkers for allowing us to park in his driveway, it made our trip so much easier, no circling the hospital trying to find somewhere to park.

Overall we're delighted with our purchase and the solar charging at this time of year is the cherry on top.

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503475#Comment_120503475

Brilliant.

And delighted it worked out for you re the trips to Crumlin.

You will truly appreciate Tesla & the Supercharger network as you arrive and leave the sites while the other cars are still queuing up for their charge on the ESB chargers…

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120503842#Comment_120503842

Thanks. I've used the superchargers now 5 times and no waiting so far. The two Esb chargers were also available in Ballacolla, but when I was leaving a MY pulled in and started charging at the Esb charger, which I found odd.

Redfox25

Great for you. You will love it

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504670#Comment_120504670

Some people love misery.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504718#Comment_120504718

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI0MRyUFIXU

...

MojoMaker

Another noob that thinks fast DC charging will "damage their battery" perhaps.

allinthehead

I just wanted to update this for anyone that's on the fence about going electric.

It's been just over a year since we changed our petrol Lexus for a Tesla M3 Rwd, we were a little apprehensive about the change due to the frequent trips from Cork to Dublin. It really has been a very smooth transition for us, we used to always stop at Ballacolla for a toilet break so the Superchargers there made it very easy. We never have to wait on the car, in fact many times I need to stop the charge, as the car can be ready to go before we are, and it's cheaper to charge when we get home. 10-15 minutes is all we ever need.

We've been all over the country in it, covered 26k since March 17th 23, and the only downside has been the fact that you need to have a think about where you will charge should you need it. I usually just check plugshare the night before, minor inconvenience for all the benefits.

Not once have I regretted getting the Rwd over the Long Range, 400 km in summer and 300 in the winter is more than enough for our use. This might not be the same for everyone and I appreciate the fact that some like to drive for 3-4 hours without a stop, the car can do this quite easily, but destination charging then becomes the issue for us. Weak bladders, age related fatigue and an addiction to caffeine, means we always stop after about an hour and a half of driving.

A change in circumstances recently meant that we needed to buy a second car and we didn't hesitate in going for a second EV. We picked up a Hyundai Ioniq about 8 weeks ago with a range of about half the M3. Absolutely ideal for our use. There was no need for a second chargepoint as the Ioniq has a small battery (28kwh) which means you can get about 13% in to the battery using a granny charger in two hours or 50% using the Zappi in the same time period. 95% of the Ioniq's charge has come from solar power in the 8 weeks. I fitted a Shelly relay to an outside socket so I could time the charge, start and stop it and monitor the use in home assistant. The only downsides of the Ioniq is that you cant see the charge percentage without going out to the car, and stupidly you need to open the drivers door to open the charge port.

Anyway, I hope this helps someone who's considering making the change, no regrets in this home so far.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122317119#Comment_122317119

For someone wanting a 2nd car like your use case, I’d also recommend considering an e-Golf. It will do the same job as the Ioniq but has an app to show battery % and the charge port door can be opened as long as the car is unlocked.

pajosjunkbox

I also bought a 28 kw 172 Ioniq back in March. My first EV and used as 2nd car in family. Ideal for all our short trips and the Ioniq is so easy to live with. They are good value at the moment and 10k should get you a decent one. I actually choose the Ioniq over our Kia Sorento PHEV every time. Don't think I will ever go back to ICE.