Installing EV charger on rented accommodation

daveyjoe

Has anybody had luck convincing their landlord to install an EV charger? I’m going to ask but I’m not too hopeful. Is the SEAI EV charger grant available to landlords that live outside the country? We are renting through an agency but I believe the landlords live in Spain.

KCross

The grant is tied to the property not the renter and if you are willing to take care of any install costs above and beyond the grant the landlord shouldn’t have an issue with it.

I would add, however, that you would probably have to leave the unit in place if you ever move house. A landlord is not going to be happy if you decide to take it off the wall when you leave and leaving holes in the wall and unused cables hanging out.

So, if I were you and you plan to stay at the property and you want the charge point agree to those terms and the landlord shouldn’t have a problem.

It’s an improvement to the house so they have nothing to lose really.

Gumbo

The grant is linked to the MPRN and the person who’s name is on the esb bill.

As a LL, I’d have no problem letting a tenant install one but the one caveat is that they’d have to leave it when/if they move out.

The reason being is that the grant is then gone for that property forever. I as a LL or another tenant can never get a grant to install one in the future.

So make sure the numbers work for you.

daveyjoe

grant is linked to the MPRN and the person who’s name is on the esb bill.

My name is on the ESB Bill so does this mean that I will not be able to get the grant in the future at a new residence?

I should have been clear, I was hoping that the LL would pay for it (or split the cost with me) as I assume that they would be getting the grant and it is stays at the residence after I leave. I’m not sure that I will be here for longer than a year so it’s tough to justify paying the full outlay myself, especially if I lost the grant in the future.

What do you reckon? Am I dreaming?

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120112808#Comment_120112808

My name is on the ESB Bill so does this mean that I will not be able to get the grant in the future at a new residence?

The grant is tied to the MPRN, not the name on the bill. If you move house you can get the grant again on a house that has not got a grant before.

I should have been clear, I was hoping that the LL would pay for it (or split the cost with me)

The LL would want to be a progressive type who cares. I think you'd need to swallow the cost but it is definitely worth asking as the worst they will say is no and you may have a LL that does care so worth a try at least.

I’m not sure that I will be here for longer than a year so it’s tough to justify paying the full outlay myself

Probably not worth the hassle if you are gone within a year. By the time you get someone to do the install you'll be ready to move on. Stick with a granny cable maybe?

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120112808#Comment_120112808

MPRN is the sole link.

You can apply without any forms from the LL once your name is on the bill and documentation provided. They don't cross check that. But you would be wise to get LL permission obviously.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120112502#Comment_120112502

That's potentially an expensive piece of equipment for a tenant to gift to a landlord. I'd only agree to those terms if the landlord was at least splitting any costs over the grant.

I wonder how long it will be before it's added to regulations similar to how a landlord must provide other white goods.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113312#Comment_120113312

That's why I said to make sure its worth it.

I wouldn't use up my one and only grant for the property if the tenant was going to leave with the ChargePoint.

Its a €1000 outlay. Lets say its split, that's €500 cost to the LL now that takes 8 years to off set.

I don't know.....

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113312#Comment_120113312

Well, its a negotiation really.... does the LL want/care whether a charge point is installed or not and how much does the tenant want it installed.

LL would be within their right to simply say "install if you wish but you are paying for it". Up to the tenant to then decide whether they want to proceed or not. The LL has the power here and any money they decide to contribute is up to them.

Personally, I would allow a tenant install and I'd contribute, but I'd want a say in what charge point is put in and where its situated and how the cables are run etc. But that's just me as a pro-EV person. Alot of LL's would just see it as unnecessary hassle and say no.

daveyjoe

Thanks for all the help. I’m thinking I’ll ask if the LL will contribute something towards it and if not then I might look into a granny charger solution.

Some questions on the granny charger. I have a good quality dual socket in the back garden (house is a new build, 2 years old). I reckon I would need a 25 meter extension cable. I’m seeing mixed reports… are heavy duty extension cables safe for this use case? What amp should I expect to charge at? Do I get the full 13 amps or should I expect less than that? 13 amp charging might be enough for me if it was safe.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113859#Comment_120113859

Be careful with that. All guidance states not to use the granny cable in that fashion.

If anything goes wrong you could be liable.

It would take a very stubborn LL not to work with you.

Do you have front garden with good access to the consumer unit?

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120113859#Comment_120113859

10amp but depends on granny charger and car

If a tenant asked me about this, I’d have to wonder what benefit I would get from paying for a charger you are going to use on your car. If you agreed to leave the functioning unit behind you when leave, I suppose that might be something, but if you max the grant for the MRPN, and want to take the unit with you, that is penalising the LL.

Water John

Consider installing a second hand unit. Replace it with an outdoor socket and take the charger with you when leaving.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117342#Comment_120117342

Still needs LL approval due to drilling through the external walls and carrying out works to the CU.

But certainly an option to keep costs down.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117265#Comment_120117265

Not really, your stilling getting the benefit of the electrical works to serve the charge point. If you, or a future tenant needs to install one the hard bit is already done and you only need to purchase and fit the charge point.

If you do decide to pay for the equipment, you will be able to advertise the property as having EV charging which would be something some tenants would look for.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117397#Comment_120117397

Having a charge point will not entitle a LL to charge more rent than rent legislation allows so from a rental perspective there is no financial gain. If the grant has already been exhausted for that MRPN, it is unlikely that a LL will pay for a new unit or certification from a registered installer unless there is a benefit. Though the wiring is already there, there will still be a cost for installing a new unit, so the LL will potentially be paying twice.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117471#Comment_120117471

You would either be paying once and keep the charge point. Or don't pay for it and the tenant keeps it, but the electrical work is still done. Why would a landlord pay, and allow the tenant to keep the equipment?

The sooner we bring in a regulation like California's which forces landlords to facilitate (at the tenants cost) charger installation the better.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117485#Comment_120117485

Maybe read my earlier post, you quoted it, I pointed out that unless the LL keeps the unit after the tenant leaves, there is no benefit for the LL in paying towards its installation for the op.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117496#Comment_120117496

Can I rip out the electrical works that were done that's adding some value?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117511#Comment_120117511

Are you ok?

What value are the electrical works adding if there is no charger? The op will have used up the grant for the MRPN, the LL isn’t going to pay for installation of another unit because the rent can’t be raised to cover costs, and another tenant is hardly going to pay the costs to buy a new unit and have it installed/certified knowing that the LL could decide to end the tenancy and sell up.

daveyjoe

This thread is getting needlessly agro. Nobody has said that LL should pay and I keep the charger. Possibilities are:

1. LL pays and LL keeps the charger.
2. I pay and I keep the charger.
3. Some combination where both LL and me pay some negotiated contribution.
4. I run a granny charger + extension from the rear of the house to the front.

I’m thinking option 4 might be the easiest for now so I would like opinions on whether a heavy duty extension with an RCD would be safe. Something like this: https://toughleads.co.uk/products/ev-extension-lead

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117535#Comment_120117535

You really fail to see that there is some shared value in the installation of the rest of the circuit.

I'd have no problem paying a sparks to fit my charge point to an existing circuit that was provided for that purpose, its a very similar model to how provision for charging is made in new builds.

The installation costs for a charge point on to the existing circuit for a property thats already certified should be far lower. With regard to landlord might sell up, thats fine I get to take my charge point with me again.

It does pose an interesting question, from an elections point of view how much effort/cost is involved in switching out the equipment.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117602#Comment_120117602

I’m struggling to see what benefit the LL gains from 1 & 3. The benefit is all on your side. The cost cannot be offset by increased rent. It would be a selling point if there was competition for tenants, but demand is such that there is no need for the LL to either for for, or contribute to the installation of a charger for you. Will you leave the property if he/she doesn’t pay for/towards it?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117654#Comment_120117654

Again, what gain is there for the LL in paying anything towards the cost? The LL can’t charge more rent, it isn’t going to increase the value of the property, and with a shortage of rental properties, a charger isn’t going to be a deciding factor on whether the property gets a tenant.

liamog

@daveyjoe I'd be careful with option 4, I'd only use it as a temporary measure whilst you hash out the other options. Even if the extension lead is suitable the socket or the circuit its on may not cope well with a sustained load

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117654#Comment_120117654

Your view point might be valid in a properly functioning rental market but that's not where we are. Dav010 is correct. The LL has very little to gain here and is only going to say yes if they are progressive or want to help the environment etc... they wont be saying yes for financial reasons.

Its still worth asking though.

@daveyjoe The way I'd approach it is:

• Get a quote so you know what you are talking about in terms of money. Get as cheap a unit as you can... secondhand even.
• Go to the LL and tell them it will cost, say, €500 above the grant amount and would they consider contributing to it on the basis that they keep it when you leave.

Wait for the answer and then go with option 4 if the answer isn't acceptable... particularly since you are saying you may not be there by next year anyway.

NOTE: By putting in a cheap second hand one you may get the work done for free (i.e. within the €600 grant amount).

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120119004#Comment_120119004

I've been lucky with landlords, they've generally seen themselves as providing a service rather than just profiting from the basic need for human shelter.

It's probably fair to say that a tenant who can afford an EV and wants to install a charge point is likely to be in a better off financial position and is likely to maintain the tenancy for a decent period, both of these factors have some value beyond the pure nickel and dime approach.

jackofalltrades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120117602#Comment_120117602

Definitely go for option 4.

1-3 seem like a lot of potential expense and hassle, especially for someone who's not going to be staying that long.

I asked my landlord about fitting an EV charger and their reply was "yes, as long as you pay for it". It's a landlords market at the moment so they don't need to go out of their way to keep tenants.

If you're using an outdoor socket make sure it's a good one though, I've had cheaper ones burn out with the charger running at 10 amps.

zg3409

Personally I would go with option 4 particularly if you have a short commute. General warnings on granny charging.

Ensure outdoor socket is quite new and not worn from regular use. Get a very heavy duty 25 metre extension lead with a big waterproof socket on the end. EV cables in UK make to order or get a local electrician to make one up for you with heavier cable than usual.

Don't unplug the house type plug regularly, it's not designed for it and you might not plug it back in perfectly. Instead leave everything connected and just unplug right at car. The connection at the car is designed for this.

Slow the charging rate if you can, most granny cable are set for a fixed 10smos but some cables or menus in the car can be set to 10/6/4 and the slower the rate the less chance something will overheat.

The rate you get at 10amps is about 2kWh per hour or 20kWh per 10 hours giving you around 100km range per overnight top of. If your commute is less than say 120km then you can fill back up every night. It's not the fastest way and you might have an issue if you arrive home after a long trip and want to leave again for a long trip in the evening. A proper home charger is 3 times quicker so you can say too up from 5-7pm and get enough to go out again on a long trip.

The main issue with granny cables is UK style plugs overheating mainly due to old worn house sockets and not fully pushed in plugs. There is also a lot of dangerous granny cables on eBay and adverts etc that have a UK plug but are labelled 16 amp and draw around 16 amps which are a real fire hazard as they immediately overload the wiring and continue to do so all night.

Try use a car branded granny cable for car if you can rather than a no brand as car branded granny cables tend to have a temperature sensor in the UK plug, but that does not help as much if you use an extension lead. All extension leads need to be fully unwound or they will catch fire.

https://toughleads.co.uk/products/ev-extension-lead